Dang, I couldnt do 874 pierces on one file with no misfires unless I had brand new consumables. I went my first 6 months with no water table, it was insane. But I didn’t have heat in garage and wasn’t sure about tips in the water, plus clean up etc. I finally got a water table and its well worth it. However it has sprung up debris onto the rails and threw my coordinates off quite a few times on the CF. So far on the PRO iv had coordinates get off 3 or 4 times in 5 weeks. I think most of them were from things coming loose. But, the water table IMO is def too shallow on the PRO esp for the 65xp plasma, just kicks stuff up too much. Keep me posted on your pierces, if you use sheetcam you can go into job report and it will tell you how many pierces and inches of cut etc. I really like sheetcam.
Just read through this. Simple question here does it make a difference if you use the regular electrode 220842 I think. (Not copper plus). I have a Hypertherm 1000 with the retrofit duramax torch. For some reason it does not like the copper plus electrodes misfires all the time. But with the regular electrodes it basically never misfires. I’ve just resorted to using all regular electrodes and haven’t had a problem since.
Hey man, that is interesting. I’d def call them and let them know. For me the regular electrode still misfires and doesn’t last as long. I just used my last one the other day. I so personally think this is more of an electrode issue. As I have stated, I’v had batches of electrodes that were very problematic compared to others. I will most likely order up a set of those and try them with just my 1/8 and thinner material. I’m also going to start trying to use the same electrode for each material. So rather than use the same electrode to pierce 1/4 all way down to 1/8" Im going to see if I can’t get more life out of them that way. Or what Im saying is have less misfire potential on my 1/8 stuff that has a ton of pierces. So its a way to keep fresher electrodes. I’ll keep ya all posted. Hopefully Langmuir can get the Run from here setup going a little better. I think if the G code is highlighted on the map it would make things much easier, also I can’t stand how it deletes what was already cut and then re numbers the G code. Basically if Run from here was easier, misfires wouldn’t be as bad. I also rarely am able to have FC detect the misfire and stop the program. Its very hit or miss.
I did call them and they sent me a new pack of them just thinking the electrodes were bad. But it didn’t help. I am going to try and play with the air pressure on the machine. I was told to try that because the timing of the electrode striking is very critical and that can be altered slightly by air pressure. The copper plus are slightly heavier I believe because they have more hafnium in them so they move slower. I have not had time to mess with it yet.
Today was 4th day in a row with issues with Hypertherm and FC. I had brand new swirl ring, electrode and nozzle. Ran up to 575 pierces cutting 1/8" 52 amps, and had several misfires within a very short time. I then had another FC nightmare. After resetting my run from here, the THC did the ol, can’t recognize where it is at trick. Once it started back up the torch just drug across the metal. So I homed it, shut FC down and restarted. I do like how FC remembers your previous home aka zero coordinates. So between that I had lost about 20 min. The Run from here patch needs to drop asap bc this is killing me.
I had another random misfire after about 100 pierces, I just let it go and it re arced on next hole. Then at end of day, I had some 1/4" to cut. I had like 3 misfires on that little bit. So we are talking in a span of less than 3 hrs. Which actually should have taken way less, I had 6 or more misfires.
Iv ran over 120 psi for a long time, I now run 120 psi which pulls 110 when running on full tank. Pressure has not made a difference in all my variations. Long time ago I tried running 100 psi. Made no difference. The randomness is what drives me crazy. Last consumables I had in, I got over 800 pierces bf one misfire. I spent about 4k on my plasma setup and the 3k or so on this table and another 500 on air line and filtration, just this year, hoping to get me caught up on orders. Both systems have let me down. So while I cripple along with them both, now I have to research other alternatives bc I can’t possibly expand my business when I can’t cut for 2hrs a day without problems.
Here is the code I got when I tried restarting the file. I’v gotten these bf.
Are you running the latest Firecontrol 20.5, it was released a few days ago with Run From Here updates
Nope didn’t see that. I’ll download it and try today, thanks for the heads up.
Curiosity question, 52amps to pierce and cut 1/8 inch? 32amps is more than enough on my smaller razor45. Is it possible that the electrode/tip etc is getting too hot and then swelling up causing sticking? Copper expands a lot. Maybe clearances are too tight and pcs are seizing up
I had mentioned that to the Hyp tech. He said I could just drop down to 45 consumables and amps, but to me, why have a plasma that can got up to 65? My sweet spot I found is 52 amps and 180in a min. I get zero dross minus my holes bc they cut slower. But those settings will save me about 20 min or so cleaning the parts I use with 1/8". I clean them while programs are running, where as I use to have to babysit the CF much more so I didn’t have time to scrape them, plus had alot more dross on the CF. Also why I don’t think that is an issue is bc I use to cut all 45 amp with my other machine and I had same issues. I have misfires on every thickness of material. Iv tried just about everything imaginable, really i been dealing with it for 2 years. Today I just gave up on a set of consumables that had 1,000 pierces, about 700 on 1/8" and 300 on 3/16. That’s what Im dealing with lately, just way less life bf I have to put new ones in. They will cut great, but misfire way too much. I had about 10 misfires with this set. Takes me about 2hrs to hit 800 pierces.
10-22 5th day in a row that was just another bad day. First off, not a fan of the new 20.5 release at all. The run from here is an absolute nightmare. I had a misfire very early in day, FC caught it, restarted and was ok. After that it was just bad news. @langmuir-daniel PLEASE stop deleting all the paths that were cut and recreating the number in the Gcode file. That is the biggest issue I have. The highlighted spot on the viewer I thought would make things easier, but really just didn’t. Im going back to the 20.4 bc that thing just had a mind of its own today, hemmed me up 20 min. Then right when I got it back going, the X lead screw came loose, ruined parts. I was beyond over it today.
Lastly with the update, now every time you pause this pops up, which is same thing that comes up on a misfire. Honestly this is completely not necessary, I pause the runs alot to remove parts and now I gotta click out of this every time to restart. Its just one extra step to deal with that I can’t see any reason for having.
I also noticed today that the Z axis doesn’t travel up before it starts the first cut. If that is the case its problematic if you have a have a warped sheet and your tip is 1/16th off the plate and scraps across the table.
Im giving honest feedback, I like this company alot but man this has caused me so much guff in the past 5 weeks of running it, I pretty much regret this purchase. I think this machine needs upgrades, I think the software should be tested more. Its good for very light use but I’v had program issues, then Z axis issues and now the X axis gave me issues 3 times in past two weeks. I can deal with alot but between this and hypertherms constant misfires I have to invest in other equipment and or change up my business model. I cut for about two hours today and 20 min was dealing with issues. Happened 5 days in a row, if you read back through my posts.
Interesting thread…keeping this one on my follow list…
Im in a rock and hard place big time. I have 2 months of orders, I work 6 days a week min. I have only one time been able to have a good week of cutting with this setup. I can get my bare minimum orders done in two days cutting 5hrs a day. Then rest of week is fabbing most it up. Now Im spread out to 2-3hr cut days with atleast a 20 min hang up everyday. One day I actually finished out my day on the CF bc the Z axis kept messing up. Its a good machine for small runs or hobby stuff. Full on production its not happening, that is why I started this thread. I want to see professionals actually using it alot. The X axis coming loose twice this week in two different locations was just salt on the wounds. My hypertherm 65 is good as long as it fires. Iv seen on many occasions people having misfires with them. I can’t believe the nerve they have selling these without telling people you will have misfires alot. No one has a definitive answer, its always ten different things and not one has been a problem solver for me atleast. I had the xp45 also and it misfired all the time. They just can’t handle alot of back to back pierces unless you have new consumables. I had misfires at 600 pierces on my last set, got up to 1000 and had to remove em. I go through about 2k lb of steel a month.
I think longtime Hypertherm empolyee (ret.) JIm Colt frequents this forum. Have you tried contacting him for insights?
I would remove each setscrew, get a drill 118* tip slightly smaller that threaded hole “dimple” the shafts. Reinstall setscrews, another upgrade if that simple dimpled shaft comes loose would be dimpled shafts with a knurled tip locking type setscrew
Here’s a thread on Plasmaspider that has some info from @jimcolt about misfires.
I’m sure you’ve probably already seen it. In that thread he says:
I typically get over 1000 pierces with Finecut consumables before any misfires
What’s not clear from that statement is if he would expect to get less or more pierces from regular consumables.
One of the issues that Jim says will cause the misfire is too low pierce height. Have you measured the actual height?
(SheetCam - FireControl Post v1.5)
G90 G94
G17
G20 (Units: Inches)
H0
G0 X0 Y0
G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-5.0 F100.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.2
G38.2 Z-5.0 F10.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.02 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.15 (Pierce Height)
G4 P60
G1 Z0.062 F50.0 (Cut Height)
G4 P60
H1
G1 X1 Y1 F27.0
H0
M5
G0 Z1.0
M5 M30
(PS27)
The above code will pause for 60 seconds after pierce height is reached, then pause again . I left out firing the torch, however run it with THC off and your plasma off. Edit the lines which set the piece height and cut height to the values you use. Now run it, when the first pause is reached, pause the run in Firecontrol. Now measure the piece height. Continue to the next pause, cut height, pause the run in Firecontrol and measure.
If they are not correct this would suggest that you may have additional backlash, so you can change the line that compensates for backlash to match your findings. This can be done by editing the Sheetcam post.
It’s unfortunate that they didn’t go with a flat on the shaft or some other means of a more positive locking on the motor coupler, as this failure was one of the main complaints of the original, and was supposed to be addressed by the new coupler design.
The Motor Couplers are changed from being a set screw style coupler to a single piece clamshell style coupler. We made this change to fix the issue where the set screws can loosen over time.
https://forum.langmuirsystems.com/t/crossfire-pro-lead-screws/5296?u=greg9504
Iv talked to him about it, Iv watched videos, I have talked to tech guys 3 or 4 diff times about the xp45 and the xp65. Again, they all point in many directions and the point is, for the price of the machine and cost of consumables Iv never been so disappointed in a product. Zero consistency unless I have absolutely brand new consumables. So if it were pressure, loose retaining cap, wrong pierce height etc etc. why would I be able to get 600-1000 pierces bf I expect misfires? The techs say its a “phantom” thing that haunts them. They said clean out the nozzles from time to time. Its the same error code every time. Everyone points in ten directions, and none of it yields anything consistent for me except using brand new consumables. So at this rate to avoid misfires I’d have to change them twice in a 4hr cut period. That I would like to avoid if possible because of costs.
I shoulda done that from the jump. I thought the new system may have been a good upgrade over the old. But clearly it isn’t. The weight of that Z axis and my machine torch is just too much for it. This is part of the upgrades this machine should have IMO.
Iv tried .150 pierce on most all my new files. Iv also done .180 and .170. I can pretty much guarantee pierce height isn’t the issue. I use to pierce with my CF at the thicker shim which I think is .125 but at some parts of table it was piercing higher. I had more consistency with misfires on my CF setup but… I did have alot of issues with it then. I was able to roughly 2500 pierces and about 15k inches of cut on consumables. Now best I got was 1200 pierces bf they misfire way too much while using the PRO. Plus if I were to pierce 2" off table it would still fire. The torch will not try to arc as it sends the 0-30-0 code which is electrode stuck open. My theory is, and the tech explained it to me as this. On rapid back to back pierces the machine doesn’t have enough time to cycle the solenoid inside. To me that seems most logical because I always notice way more misfires on my holes. Outside longer cuts it usually never happens. Its just a very sporadic thing and I understand there are 20 variables to deal with. It all leads back to just using new consumables (though I have issues within 100 pierces bf). To me it just seems bizarre that a shop can setup 4x8 sheets and cut all day, but I can’t seem to got past 3hrs of cutting without issues. Add in the Z axis malfunctioning and or the Lead screws coming loose and its a frustrating day. If I wasn’t so backed up with work I could expect less, but Im about to stop taking new orders bc I can’t fill them at this rate.
I have checked the pierce height as Iv paused right bf it fires. FC shows the reading as well.
If anyone would be interested in trying my used consumables I’d gladly send some to guys to try. These are hypertherm 65 amp. If anything you can use the electrodes. I know there is more life on them because the cut quality is just fine, its just the firing of them. I could put these in a hand torch and they would fire and run for a very long time.
I’ve been reading thru this with interest and hope you don’t mind if I drop a few thoughts…I’m a business owner too, but I don’t do metal stuff professionally or commercially, so I’m not going to attempt to help diagnose what’s going on with your machines. From a business perspective I will say it sounds like you have some good problems - namely too much work and a strong looking book of future work! That’s awesome!
Without knowing your margins, but guessing based on the amount of metal you say you are cutting per month, I’d immediately get a new plasma machine coming. Something like the HTP 875 or something like it. I know HT is supposed to be great, but in your case, something is going bad and I’d try and remove that variable as quick as possible. The amount of time (and frustration) you’re killing trying to fix the issues outweighs the cost of the machine if I’m reading this right. I know you’ve got alot of money in those machines, and it’s a hard call, but if you’re in business making money, they’re disposable items to help you generate cash.
…perhaps you may need two machines - one to swap out if stuff goes bad so you can keep producing while replacements ship, etc…
Only you can make the call and have the insight to say if that’s worth it to you, but I’d give it some thought. As far as the other issues - lead screws, z axis - unless I’m reading wrong they don’t seem to me as critical as the plasma issues, but my advice would be to knock down the big one first and then deal with the smaller items…perhaps there’s a new daily maintenance routine before cutting to re-torque bolts, lube threads, and check connections - stuff like that.
Just my 2c from being in business for about 15 years…
I don’t think spending 5k every 6 months on a new plasma cutter would make very good financial sense.
I worked in a fab shop after school for 5 years until I thought one day this is easy why don’t I just go in business for myself so I did. There was a big learning curve I went from working 50 hours per week to 100 hours per week and making half the money I used to if I had a good week.
I would take any job from making a stupid little art thing to building a full tube chassis buggy.I learned real quick that machines,equipment, grinding discs,consumables arent cheap and that there not just in the parts room anymore.
Margins are tight when your just building things that anyone can make. I live in a pretty small town like 30k people but I know of at least 10 places that can make signs and do make signs and they’ll do it for basically nothing because for them its basically a weekend hobby to get out of the house away from there wives.
I’ve since found my market and excel at it and continue to build new stuff everyday as things evolve and I have great clients that always recommend me.
I have 2 plasma cutters in my shop,not to give one a break when its tired but because they both work everyday and to replace them every 6 months would really start to chew into my profits.I recently had to replace my 10 year old miller dynasty tig welder and that was a $9000 dollar bill but after 10 years its sorta expected but i cant imagine spending that every 6 months.
When you spend good money on equipment you expect it to perform and last. I’m a hyperthem guy I really have no complaints about them at all with the experience I/ve had with them. If I was in his position with the issues hes having I would probably think different because he isn’t stupid and hes gone through all the steps and troubleshooting to try and fix the issue with minimal results unfortunately.
I know lots of people that use hypetherm equipment and have never seen or heard of a issue this bad especially trying to cut out a 12"x24" section at a time.