Trouble cutting 3/8” with Crossfire Pro and Primeweld Cut60 (Not solved yet)

CrossFire ® PRO
298

@nicaDd, point taken about the cables.

Area 1 is the electronics power cord and the torch lead. I’ll try to isolate them better. And I’ll uncoil the work clamp.

The plasma cutter is centered under the table, front to back, to protect it from as much splash as possible. It is also as far away from the electronics enclosure as I can get it with the supplied THC cabling. My only other option would be to have it on the opposite side, nearer to the electronics enclosure. Would that be better? Both the torch and work clamp would have to go past the electronics enclosure in that scenario.

And how do people deal with the excessive length of these cables without coiling them up? It seems like I’d have cables all over eachother if I just unfurl them.

Also, I’m not following you on the torch mounting. It’s about half an inch from it’s lower limit touching off on thin sheetmetal, and it’s roughly in the middle of it’s travel when it’s in the retract position. Which still allows me enough up motion to easily change consumables.

299

i use extension cables to extend the torch on/off and thc cables and have my cutter (cut60) on the outside opposite the control box. been running it this way on the original 2x2 table and now the pro, about 4 years now.

as long as you have enough wiggle room on the downward stroke of the z axis that it doesn’t prematurely activate it, you should be good. just looks really low to me.

4 Likes
300

I had no idea such a thing existed! :grinning:

301

do you want to focus on symptoms or determine cause?
You have talked about symptoms for 20 days. Symptoms are helpful in finding a direction to troubleshoot. Thats it.
The goal is to determine is you have a hardware issue or an rf/emi interference issue. Unplugging the z axis has no bearing determining if energy from the plasma cutter is traveling along and interrupting communications from the computer or injecting energy into your laptop that is causing program functionality issues. I just went through this entire thread again, I dont see a full on photo of your entire setup. Laptop location. Cable routing and so forth. Can you post that on here? I see the picture above but that does not have nearly enough information shown.

6 Likes
302

I don’t want to do any of it, to be honest.

I appreciate that you did that. I get that you’re trying to help me. There’s a disconnect here for one of us, and I guess it’s probably me. I can try what you’re suggesting, but ALL of the issues I have had (from day 1), have only manifested themselves through the THC system; take THC out of the equation and I’d have no way to know that there is anything wrong with my table, at least so far.

Understand that I’ve been being led in a certain direction for 20 days, and not just stabbing in the dark. I’ve tried very diligently, I think, to try everything suggested. Now I’ve ruined a couple hundred bucks worth of material, and the thought of just wasting a bunch more material and time hoping that my machine will suddenly start manifesting it’s issues in a different way than it has been doesn’t excite me. You’re calling it eliminating variables or ruling things out, but it strikes me as more of a stab in the dark than the things I’ve been trying.

Let me add two more things that I have maybe not been clear enough about.

  1. My hard limit issues can’t be caused by the THC or plasma cutter, because it will do it with the plasma cutter unplugged. I can turn FireControl off with the torch in the bottom left (x=0 and y=33.3) instead of the home position, and if I turn it back on I can crash into the front stanchion plates. It will do this every single time. I’m assuming this is either normal, or a bug in the latest version of FireControl. Several people on the Facebook group are saying that they can crash their machine after setting up their limit switches, too. Nobody responded to my list of observations about which of the items were “normal” and which were not.

  2. Last night’s freeze was the first time that the FireControl program itself has become completely unresponsive. I had just successfully completed my cut, the arc was off, and live voltage was reading 0, and I was wiping down my machine letting the fan cool the plasma cutter. I bumped a limit switch while I was wiping down the gantry tube. FireControl threw a limit switch error, and when I tried to clear it, it threw an “unknown” error and became unresponsive. I had to close out of it and restart to Home my machine.

I’ll post a picture of my cable routing. They’re all run together, so I’m sure it’s another issue I can address. I’m open yo trying those types of solutions.

1 Like
303

I have tried multiple times to go through this entire thread but keep getting interrupted. I think there is a good chance you are having some interference issues as you and others have surmised.

I am confident you can get up and running.

Follow the suggestions about cable management. You will need to uncoil your cables. I had fire control freeze on me a couple times. Got to where I was nervous to cut anything substantial for fear it would freeze up in the middle of a project. I chalked it up to the Primeweld cutter. I added 3 ferrite chokes. And I straightened all my cables… especially the work lead. Moved my cutter to the side opposite the control box and wired my vim box to the raw voltage lugs inside the machine. I also only run with my laptop on battery power. Since doing all of that I haven’t had any issues I also ran the cables on opposite sides of the mast.

I empathize with you. I know it can get frustrating. For me it’s just a hobby so that takes allot of stress and angst out of the equation.

These things are definitely NOT “plug and play.” I don’t think there is such a thing as plug and play CNC plasma. There are just to many variables to make that a possibility. There is a learning curve with all 4 components. CAD, CAM, setup and running the table and the plasma cutter.

We are here for you. Let’s get you through this.

Here is a thread that shows how to add the chokes.

4 Likes
304

@CrazyCasey As far as the hard limits go, did I correctly read that you shut down Firecontrol with the torch X:0 Y:33? And when you reloaded, you could “crash”? I suspect Firecontrol resets the machine home each time it’s loaded (look at the Machine tab next time.) As such, the soft limits will be out of position until a home has occurred.

Our new procedure is to home the machine each time Firecontrol is loaded. Even deliberate attempts to crash have been stopped by the limits (hard / soft).

Hope this helps.

1 Like
305

Here is a really good video I found on EMI and how to reduce it.

It does go over all of the pervious talked about methods but with great visuals and tests to prove the reduction results.

Electromagnetic Interference & How to Reduce it - YouTube

5 Likes
306

I got an email back from Langmuir this morning.

They mentioned nothing of the damaged Z-axis components, but they would like me to go cut several straight lines on video (screen recording) until I can replicate the THC driving the torch into the work. :flushed: They said it would be too complicated for them to diagnose WHY it happened if I got it to do it again on a more complex cut.

I responded and told them that the best they could probably hope for was to have me replicate the “live voltage” freezing on video, and reiterated that I needed them to either warranty or sell me some new z-axis parts. I also told them I had already taken some steps to reduce EMI, so I may have already solved the problem, but my machine is still damaged.

So, I guess I’m off to try and crash my machine again…on purpose this time.

I sure feel bad for my poor Tecmo machine torch…

:roll_eyes:

Joyous Day!

307

Sorry, I have had my CrossFire pro for years now and have never crashed it. Limit switchs are a waste of time and headache. Before you push the cut button look and think of whats going on. If your file is even getting close to the limitations of the table do a dry run first. Just my two cents. I’ll be quiet now.

6 Likes
308

Can’t agree more with that statement @Bigdaddy2166

1 Like
309

You know, @Bigdaddy2166, I was just getting ready to message you to ask some questions about your EMI routine.

And while that comment makes you sound pretty cool on an internet forum, in this instance, you don’t really know what the heck you’re talking about. Also, it doesn’t do a damn thing to help, and certain feels a bit like a personal attack. Kind of borderline of a bullying thing to say in fact.

Here’s three reasons why you’re comment sucks:

  1. The program that gave me a machine travel limits error had multiple tool paths, and like a rookie, I ran the dry run on the one that had slightly less area than the one that caused the error, because they both had the same origin point. You haven’t made ANY mistakes? Congratulations!

  2. There is a bug in the limit switch version of FireControl that will ONLY allow you to move into the Y-axis hard limit if you have to restart the program for ANY reason when the torch is in the bottom left corner.

  3. The only time my machine has crashed in a program is because FireControl froze and every single other safety override failed. So, not my fault!

310

Sorry, you took it like that. It was not mean that way. You have a problem with EMI and that primeweld unit is probably the culprit. At one time they were taken off the approved list just because of their EMI problem. Not sure how it got back on the list. Some work perfect and some are like yours.
They are notorious for this same problem.
Have you grounded the table?
Have you uncoiled the work cable from the side of the control box?
Have you put a emi choke on your usb?
Before I put a $200/piece of aluminum on the table. I would make sure I could cut out a bottle opener or something like that.

6 Likes
311

@Bigdaddy2166

Well, I’m sorry if I overreacted, John. I’m new to CNC, but not machining, and crashing machines is usually seen as a direct reflection on your worth as a human being in machinist circles (even though everyone has done it).

And while I’m admittedly a total rookie, I’m trying like Hell to follow best practices, and I think I’ve been pretty diligent about it, at least so far as I’ve been able to discern what best practices are.

I have not done the things you mentioned yet, as I took a break from this thing yesterday, and now Langmuir wants me to replicate the problem for them on video, so I might have to wait until I satisfy them, to start taking steps to reduce EMI, but I absolutely intend to do all of those things, and I want to try your sheathing on the work clamp cable, too.

And I think you’re right about Primeweld. Though I don’t think they’re going to refund me, so I need to try and make this thing work long enough to pay for a Hypertherm.

312

Put it on Craig’s list. If cost is an issue buy an Everlast 52i. If money is no object Hypertherm.

Do those things I said and you won’t need to email Langmuir.
Disable the stupid limit switches. All they do is put more drama in this situation. They are not needed at all…
Report back when you done. I’m serious about Craig’s list. 99% of your problem is that power supply.

3 Likes
313

You’re probably right, @Bigdaddy2166.

I have to deal with Langmuir, though; I don’t know if you saw, but when FireControl froze during a downward Z correction it ran the torch into my work so hard that it bent the rails and maybe the bearing axles on the Z-axis. I offered to buy the parts, but said that I really didn’t feel like this was my fault, and asked if they would warranty them. Their answer is to jump through all these hoops.

314

While your waiting for the parts. Start working on the list.
Move primeweld as far away as possible.
Put in ground rod.
Connect all the affected equip like we illustrated.
Emi choke on usb cable
Uncoil all cables, including work lead.
Disconnect limit switches. They have no purpose for you at this stage of the game. Sometime you can use them for indexing projects but not right now.
Report back
We all want you to get through this.
Lets do it. Asap
Put primeweld on Craigs list☺️

9 Likes
315

I figured I might as well post this video…for posterity.

This is basically exactly what the Langmuir tech who contacted me asked for. I mean, I think he technically wanted me to crash the machine again, but this illustrates the same failure that caused the crash.

Anyway, I was lucky enough that it did this again on the very first cut I tried. Almost like the EMI (or whatever is causing these issues) is getting worse.

Anyway, sorry for the stupid LIKE button in the middle of the screen, but I wanted it to be easy to see the pertinent part of my laptop so I uploaded the video as a short.

To summarize what you’re seeing, 3/4 of the way through the first cut “live voltage, torch speed, and THC all freeze, and they stay frozen through the end of the cut, and after I end the program, and after I generate a new straight line program…and start and finish the second program. In fact, it’s still frozen now, and it’s been 45 minutes at least. I should probably go turn off my laptop.

Oh, and speaking of laptop, my charger doesn’t have a ground on it, so, that was a coincidence.

Hopefully this information is enough for Langmuir to make a determination as to whether or not I can get some new parts for my Z-axis. Once they sign off on this service request, I’ll start moving some wires around, and get this table grounded.

Anyway, I just thought I would share. Thank you everyone for your help, patience, moral support, etc.

-Casey

2 Likes
316

I don’t want to start an argument.

And I fully plan to proceed with the EMI mitigation strategies that have been presented.

BUT

I wanted to give a brief synopsis of my video teleconference with Langmuir’s tech support this evening, and a bit of a lightbulb moment that I had afterwards, at dinner.

So, basically, Langmuir connected into my laptop while I ran a bunch of cuts this evening, and of course, this time we couldn’t replicate the freezing issues I had experience just an hour prior (see video in the post above).

My wifi signal was too weak in the garage, so I had to use my mobile hot spot. Plus I was on the phone, plus I had my laptop plugged in. And everything worked perfectly.

I asked a BUNCH of questions. The tech didn’t think my Primeweld plasma cutter was the issue. He didn’t think my coiled up work lead was the issue (though he did suggest I uncoil it, and even better shorten it).

I asked about EMI, and his suggestion was that I try to pay attention to what’s happening when I’m having the freezing issues. His words: “is your neighbor using a grinder, is your wife doing laundry”. This is what, in the literary world, we refer to as “foreshadowing”.

The tech also said that people have issues with FireControl freezing often, and for a TON of different reasons. And he said that a common issue is actually incompatibility with the computer graphics card, especially when issues only present during complex geometry (“G3 moves”). He couldn’t give me definitive information about which graphics cards are compatible and which are not; high end cards seem to have more issues than basic equipment, and he thought my graphics card was probably fine.

Anyway, at the end of the day, we didn’t really get anywhere. And I still need to do some EMI mitigation best practices, move my Primeweld as far away as possible, and ground my table.

BUT

When I came in for dinner I asked my wife if she was doing any laundry today…

We determined that she was running the dryer when I had FireControl freeze up, and she was done by the time I got on the phone with Langmuir. And she’s pretty sure she was running the dryer around the same time I had the big failure on Sunday.

I’m not going to say that’s it. But it’s certainly an outside of the box thing to look into.

6 Likes
317

Sounds like you are in good hands. :+1:t2: