Air Compressor aftercooler Info thread

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Well, after more pondering and input from @TinWhisperer about the effectiveness of the cooler in between the pump and tank and potential efficiency loss, I’ve removed my cooler to try a new experiment.

I’ve added a new cooler after the tank, 4 feet from the standard tank outlet. If the tank was really holding super hot air, and the aftercooler between the pump and tank was providing a real benefit, then deductive reasoning says the new location should pick up water as well right? It should also show a temperature change as air moved through, becoming progressively colder until it condenses in the filter.

I don’t think I’ll be able to verify this experiment until summer hits, but so far this new setup has collected no moisture. Perhaps the original aftercooler idea isn’t as much of a benefit as we thought. I’ve still yet to find any amount of water in my compressor tank as well after heavy use. I have it programmed now to drain every morning at around 630, so I may need to turn that off for a week to see.

Feel free to chime in with your own observations or ideas that prove or disprove the “aftercooler” concept. I’m welcome to the notion that simply seeing the water come out via the aftercooler makes us think it’s doing something that is not necessary. I would have expected a decent amount of water in my drain based on what I saw the aftercooler removing, but not yet.

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I have the cooler between pump and tank with an auto drain before it enters tank. On a real humid hot day in AZ (50% humidity 100 degrees ) When the compressor cycles off and pressure bleeds off it will drain about a 1/4 cup of water out, everytime it cycles. I also don’t get alot of water build up in my tank.

How was your cooler mounted? Mine has the inlet on the top with the tubes running up and down. outlet on bottom. My cooler also does snake up and down. It’s just multiple single tubs running top to bottom…

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I asked ChatGPT. :upside_down_face:

does a piston type air compressor benifit from an aftercooler between tank and compressor?

Yes, an aftercooler can provide several benefits when installed between the tank and compressor in a piston-type air compressor system. Here are some of the main benefits:

  1. Reducing Heat: When compressed air is generated, it gets heated up due to the compression process. This can cause damage to the compressor and reduce the efficiency of the system. An aftercooler can cool down the compressed air, reducing the temperature and preventing damage to the compressor.
  2. Removing Moisture: Compressed air also contains moisture, which can cause corrosion and damage to downstream equipment. An aftercooler can help remove this moisture by cooling the compressed air, causing the water vapor to condense and separate from the air.
  3. Improving Air Quality: Cooler and drier air is cleaner air, and an aftercooler can help improve the overall air quality of the system by removing moisture and reducing the amount of contaminants present in the compressed air.
  4. Extending the Life of the System: By reducing the temperature and removing moisture, an aftercooler can help extend the life of the compressor, downstream equipment, and the overall system.

Overall, installing an aftercooler between the tank and compressor can provide several benefits to a piston-type air compressor system, improving its efficiency, reliability, and lifespan.

does a piston type air compressor benifit from an aftercooler after the tank

Installing an aftercooler after the tank in a piston-type air compressor system may not provide as many benefits as installing it between the tank and compressor. Here’s why:

  1. Heat: After the compressed air leaves the tank, it has already been cooled to some extent due to the expansion of the air as it leaves the compressor. Therefore, the compressed air temperature after the tank is relatively lower than before the tank. As a result, installing an aftercooler after the tank may not have as significant an impact on reducing the temperature of the compressed air as compared to installing it before the tank.
  2. Moisture: Since the air has already expanded and cooled to some extent after leaving the compressor, much of the moisture present in the compressed air would have already condensed and been separated from the air. Therefore, installing an aftercooler after the tank may not be as effective in removing moisture from the compressed air.
  3. Pressure Drop: Installing an aftercooler after the tank can cause a significant pressure drop in the compressed air system, which can reduce the overall efficiency of the system.

Overall, while installing an aftercooler after the tank may provide some benefits, such as removing remaining moisture and improving air quality, it may not be as effective in reducing the temperature of the compressed air and may cause pressure drops in the system. Therefore, installing an aftercooler between the tank and compressor in a piston-type air compressor system would likely provide more significant benefits.

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@MechanicJon I also simply prompted Chat GPT

here is the prompt

"I have two scenarios about air drying compressed air . 1. scenario one goes air pump, intercooler, , check valve tank, tank, pressure reducer to 120psi, 2. scenario two goes air pump , check valve tank, tank, pressure reducer to 120psi, aftercooler. will the air leaving this components differ?

Here is Chat GPT reply

"Yes, the air leaving the components in scenario one and scenario two will differ.

In scenario one, the compressed air leaving the intercooler will have been cooled to some extent, but it will still contain a significant amount of moisture and contaminants. This is because the intercooler primarily cools the air to improve efficiency and performance, rather than removing moisture or other contaminants.

In scenario two, the compressed air leaving the aftercooler will have been cooled to a much greater extent than in scenario one, and a significant amount of moisture will have been removed. This is because the aftercooler is specifically designed to remove moisture from compressed air by cooling it to a temperature below its dew point, causing the moisture to condense and be removed from the air stream.

So, while both scenarios involve air drying compressed air, scenario two is more effective at removing moisture and contaminants from the compressed air."

Then I made sure Chat GPT knew we were talking about coolers of the same size.

" re answer with the information that the intercooler and aftercooler have the same specs"

revised answeer

"If the intercooler and aftercooler have the same specifications and are designed to perform the same function, then the difference in the quality of the compressed air leaving the components in scenario one and scenario two would be less significant.

However, even in this case, there would still be some differences between the two scenarios. The intercooler in scenario one would still cool the compressed air to some extent, which would result in a reduction in the amount of moisture and contaminants in the compressed air. However, the aftercooler in scenario two would be more effective at removing moisture from the compressed air, as it is specifically designed for that purpose.

Therefore, while the difference in the quality of the compressed air leaving the components in scenario one and scenario two may be less significant if the intercooler and aftercooler have the same specifications, there would still be some differences between the two scenarios."

Here is a good example of Chat GPT getting an easy technical question incorrect

TIN PROMPT

“What is the cylinder pressure of R-410A stored at 59°F? CC-T02-18 85 PSIA 70 PSIA 167 PSIG 85 PSIG”

Chatgpt :The cylinder pressure of R-410A stored at 59°F is approximately 85 PSIA (pounds per square inch absolute).

R-410A is a blend of refrigerants that is commonly used in air conditioning and heat pump systems. Its pressure-temperature relationship is determined by the properties of its individual components, and can be found in tables or by using a refrigerant pressure-temperature chart.

At 59°F, the saturation pressure of R-410A is approximately 85 PSIA. This means that if R-410A is stored in a cylinder at this temperature, its pressure will be close to 85 PSIA if the cylinder is not overfilled.

It is important to note that the pressure of R-410A can vary depending on the temperature and the amount of refrigerant in the cylinder, so it is important to use the appropriate chart or table and to follow proper handling and storage procedures when working with refrigerants.

TIN:

isnt 167 the answer?

CHAT GPT:

I apologize for the error in my previous response. You are correct, the cylinder pressure of R-410A stored at 59°F is approximately 167 PSIG (pounds per square inch gauge).

R-410A is a blend of refrigerants that is commonly used in air conditioning and heat pump systems. Its pressure-temperature relationship is determined by the properties of its individual components, and can be found in tables or by using a refrigerant pressure-temperature chart.

At 59°F, the saturation pressure of R-410A is approximately 166.8 PSIG. This means that if R-410A is stored in a cylinder at this temperature, its pressure will be close to 167 PSIG above atmospheric pressure if the cylinder is not overfilled.

It is important to note that the pressure of R-410A can vary depending on the temperature and the amount of refrigerant in the cylinder, so it is important to use the appropriate chart or table and to follow proper handling and storage procedures when working with refrigerants.

TIN:
why did you give the answer of 85 before?

Chat gpt:
I apologize for the confusion. The answer of 85 PSIA was incorrect and I made a mistake in my response. The correct answer for the cylinder pressure of R-410A stored at 59°F is approximately 167 PSIG (pounds per square inch gauge).

TIN:

why did you choose 85

ChatGPT:

I apologize for my mistake. I may have accidentally selected the wrong answer choice or made an error in my calculations. It is important to double-check and verify the accuracy of information to avoid providing incorrect answers. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

TIN:
what step did you take to make this “accident” ?

Chat GPT:
As an AI language model, I do not make conscious decisions or have intentions to make mistakes. However, in this case, it appears that I provided an incorrect answer due to a calculation error or a mistake in reading the question. It is possible that I may have selected the wrong answer choice or misread the temperature value, leading to the incorrect calculation. It is important to always double-check and verify information to ensure accuracy.

TIN:
what step did you make to choose 85

CHATGPT:
I apologize for any confusion I may have caused. I do not have access to my previous responses or the specific question you are referring to, so I cannot provide a definitive answer. However, it is possible that I may have made a mistake in my calculation or misunderstood the question, leading me to provide an incorrect answer. It is important to always double-check and verify information to ensure accuracy."

I find this to be a great point by chat gpt

“I may have made a mistake in my calculation or misunderstood the question, leading me to provide an incorrect answer. It is important to always double-check and verify information to ensure accuracy”

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Leave it to you to confuse the hell out of an AI app!

But it does provide an excellent lesson: CHECK YOUR RESULTS!

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I ve been spending a lot of time with my new study partner and collaborator over the last few months. I have found that you have to

because it will get confused and start playing AI balderdash with you, which it is fantastic at playing.

also its answers are derived from mainstream knowledge from the internet so its opinion will aligned with the status quo weather correct or not.

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I will also put in there that the efficiency of the cooler will be higher between the pump and the tank simply because it has a higher TD.

But I am looking at the system as a whole and not just isolating my answers to efficiency of the aftercooler.

Giving both scenarios the amount of moisture and delivered temp should be the similar if you don’t take a few things into account.

This is the one big thing that doesn’t get taken into account. The scenario where the cooler is between the pump and the tank the pump it will run hotter, the ambient air running through the cooler will be hotter the intake air for the compressor will be hotter because you discharging all this hot air in the same place right over top of the compressor where the heads, after cooler and the intake are.

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I think your missing the key component is the water separator between after cooler and tank.

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Are you saying in that scenario has the addition of a coalescing style water separator in between the after cooler and the tank.

Well in the second scenario then add that same piece of equipment to after the after cooler and then test both the outlets of each case.

Fair is fair

As in key component you believe it separates the most moisture?

Or how do you feel it’s the key component in the scenario?

And it is obvious that in both scenarios there should be a drain at the tank and the heat exchanger regardless of where the after cooler is placed.

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I’m just going by the amount of moisture my system kicks out before entering tank. Any moisture keep out of the tank is a good thing.

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I do understand the tank will basically do the same thing as the air cools in the tank. But over time can damage tank if not properly drained religiously.
Also cooler air entering tank will have a chance to cool to ambient temp more then hot air entering tank.

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We’re talking in the context of doing things properly.

Yes but in the second scenario it’s still proceeds to another heat exchanger.

Regardless . the tank will be at 100% humidity so it’s hard to be more wet than wet in any of the scenarios. You can’t get more wet then 100%

I’m enjoying flushing out this thought. I know my opinion of having after cooler after the tank is contrary to almost all standards and opinions that exist.

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Ok, I’ll admit your point has some validity.
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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The way I see things everyone for themselves. I do have a after cooler between the tank and pump. I think you need a large one or one designed for such applications. I wish I had checked my temps before I installed it. In the process I also changed the motor pulley out of necessity with a smaller pulley. My pump runs slower than most now. It takes 3 minutes to refill 140 gallon tanks I have. I also have a cooler after my main tank as well it also catches moisture on long runs. the amount of moisture you catch will depend on your climate. I don’t remember the compressor head temps. I rarely see the fittings goin into my main tank much over 100 degrees.

On my system I really don’t think I am damaging my pump but maybe. Doing it over I probably would have put both after coolers after my main tank. I really don’t want to replumb my system without honestly knowing I am doing harm to my compressor.

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I don’t know about harm or no harm but for sure the air pump will work harder because of the added static pressure If after cooler is between the compressor and the tank.

Also depending on where you locate your check valve you’ll be losing more air cycle . When that section of tubing potentially including the after cooler unloads in preparation for the next ON cycle.

You’re also subjecting you’re after cooler too far more vibration. Between the pump and tank.

And a vast majority of these installations people are using a oil to air heat exchanger for an application that should use an air to air heat exchanger. I find that course of logic really odd.

If you really believe that you wouldn’t be on here every single day trying to help people do it the best way.

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Oh I didn’t mean it like that I meant as far as how you choose to install the after cooler it is a at your own risk thing. It would be a great undertaking to prove one way or another so that is why I said everyone for themselves. As far as my after cooler it is a remote mount with flex lines.

I do agree it will have to put extra load on the compressor. I don’t know how much harm there is because some compressors have coolers between the cylinders granted they are designed for that but you are doing at least half the same thing.

I would move my first one if I ever had to redo my system.

I would like to see some people with and without after coolers report compressor head temps . For what it is worth there are so many different compressor it would be hard to compare.

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The best way to cool the air, is to have a cylinder head and cylinder with water jackets .Add a water pump to circulate coolant through a radiator with electric fan. Air would be a lot cooler as the compressor operates, thus cooler air going to compressor tank.

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Thanks for doing this!

I typed a long response… then deleted it… seemed like I was talking in circles.

Seems to me your experiment indicates the aftercooler does more work and is more efficient having it pre tank?

I suppose the only metric that matters is the end result. What is the moisture content and air temp at the end of the line.

One method to observe moisture content would be to go by how long your desiccant lasts?

Even then, with how much the humidity changes in northern utah day to day and hour to hour the end of line moisture content variable could be a moving target anyway.

You could run some day to day tests and change the plumbing between runs. Weigh the beads before and after to see which method was removing the most moisture… pretty rudimentary and allot of unaccounted for variables still.

I look forward to your results and the discussion.

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Hey all

Please no one think I am arguing. This is just information.

Fist off I would not recommend anyone modifying anything unless they are sure about doing it.

So I ran home opened all my tanks I have a 80 gallon compressor and two 30 gallon dry air tanks. The compressor is a 7 h.p two stage that the compressor is 4 years old. My last compressor lasted 25 ish years. No mods during that time. I down shifted the pulley on the motor from a 5 inch down to a 4. the five was damaged so I made one out of what I had.

Any how from a absolute cold start to recharge my tanks the hottest part I could find was the fittings leaving the head which reach 320 degrees as the compressor shut off. I do have a after cooler the fittings entering the tank was 100 degrees.

I am not recommending one or trying to contradict anyone opposed to them just trying to give information the help others decide what to do .

I would like to see someone with a similar compressor without a after cooler chime in.

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Its just a discussion

With equipment we make tests at operating temperature. Run everything for 15-30minutes to the till the equipment has reach a relatively stable operating temperature then reasonable and more repeatable results can be observed.

All these metal components are heat sinks and it takes some time for them to absorb heat.

how are you taking these measurements?

Also the ambient conditions should be recorded along side this data.

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