I don’t want to make this seem like anyone was using your experience or contributions as a form of evidence or anything regarding LS. My mention of you was simply just to state that 1/3 of the probes you have are functional. That’s all. Please don’t feel that you were singled out or any of your information was used maliciously. I apologize that it seemed like your contribution was being used against you. Total apologies there man…
Totally agree again with the majority of the statement - but I think we’re mixing up (from the point I’m trying to make anyways) accusations of the entire kit being a dud which it absolutely is not. My machine is actually very capable and impressive given the price point. The issue is item specific (Probe). I would recommend the core machine to anyone inquiring, but I would suggest to them to wait it out until LS gets a better foothold on the issues current builders are having.
If we don’t have these discussions, then nothing gets done. Your example with your Toyota - is if a 2016 model has a glaring problem that disrupts it’s functionality as a vehicle - the manufacturer will issue a recall to affected vehicles with a solution to the problem. There may be 15 million 2016 Tacoma’s but if 250,000 vehicles are affected, it still warrants a recall for those 250,000 vehicles. Toyota will not simply say “Yeah well it was our first year model so oh well!” (Not insinuating any similarities to LS with the probe issue, I’m just saying we need a discussion on how to resolve it for those affected)
However the point of this topic is the touch probe - so I’m gonna try to keep it on track with just the touch probe.
I recently made a forum post regarding some Y axis issues im having and awesome-ly @langmuir-daniel responded with some advice. I’m hoping for some similar advice/support on behalf of LS as towards a resolution for the individuals affected by probe problems. Sending another probe with crossed fingers it’s one that will work - has proven to not be a good solution in prior situations.
I would agree to your point about people complaining. I have no idea how many machines are in service let alone how many don’t have a single issue. A forum is just like a review system, the only people who are going to leave a review are the ones who either had a very bad experience or the ones who had a stellar one. Either way, should be taken with a grain of salt.
I dont have many issues with my machine or any of the hardware. The software is surely lacking but that will improve with time, especially with customer input.
In the mid 90s I had a 3 year old Fadal. I got a call from the dealer saying they identified a reliability issue with the early version of the cpu card and wanted to know when they could install it. It showed up in the mail a few days later with a tech, didn’t cost me a dime. I’ve had a similar experience with our Haas ATC actuator. Perhaps its just our dealer going the extra mile and not an industry standard thing but I assumed it was.
Ive also taken my truck back to the dealer for several “reliability and drive ability” improvements, also free. Sounds like Toyota has a poor customer service model.
But I digress, I forgot to relize that even though it appears a lot of people in the forums are having issues, its a small fraction of the total population. I have faith that LS will resolve all the bugs in their product. Some communication to this community would likely reduce the temperature in the furnace perhaps.
I’m very curious if LS has identified any root causes for the probe errors. I am glad to hear they are getting the faulty/questionable probes back
I hope they’re not just tossing them and identifying the specific issues.
Im in agreeance - I think just more communication and transparency would go a long way. But I also understand the position LS is in when it comes to this kind of stuff. My intent with this thread was just to have an open discussion.
If it turns out that there’s a completely obvious user error among people experiencing probe issues - then sweet - at least we know what the dealio is. There always going to be manufacturer defects sure - but if the consensus is that a more indepth instruction guide to your LS touch probe (and maybe how to identify if there is in fact a fault or inconsistency with the probes ability) thatd certainly help out the community - but also filter out legitimate defects as opposed to user error on LS quality control side. I know there’s a document floating around on setting probe concentricity.
I don’t really have any answers - just discussing.
I certainly can see how people are having issues with concentricity as well as the resultant errors. I’ve heard stories of some chucking them in their lathe’s and dialing them in like a 4 jaw job. Personally I used the X-boss probe routine and watched machine coordinates. I’d probe it once, watch the machine coordinate and then rotate the probe 180° and run the routine again, make an adjustment and repeat. Do the same in both X and Y of the probe. I was able to get to <.0003" repeatable in about 15 min doing it that way. Can also use the method to do a quick 2 min verification of the probe.
If enough people are interested in that method or if others think a video would be helpful I’d be happy to make a video explaining and demonstrating the process. Perhaps that’s all the kind of help some are looking for. I’m certain there are other methods, maybe even better ones. This one worked very well for me and I didn’t require any external tooling to do it.
You’re welcome! I just happened to come across it buried in another probe discussion thread a few weeks ago. I’ve shared it a few times since it’s hard to find! It really should be in it’s own pinned thread.
I don’t know if this will help any one, but I had a customer who wanted a lot of weird small aluminum parts so I decided to take another run at the touch probe. I took it apart polished the cups inside the probe used a stronger spring, soldered a longer wire in instead of the stubby red one and reinstalled everything after a very thorough cleaning, my original issue was that I would get very inconsistent zeros, and if I put a micrometer on it and moved the stylus it would come out of concentricity by about 10 or 15 tho in a random direction. I had rebuilt it twice before both with some success but never actually good and usable results. however one of the things i did this time actually helped. putting an indicator on it if i push the stylus out (a lot) it will come back to almost the same place. I spent around 10 minutes abusing it to see if it was a fluke and it was coming in within about a half thousands concentric give or take a tenths. Now thats good enough to make some parts. If any one else is having similar troubles the project took pennies to do.
This is the way, i too had to switch to Haimer NG since my 2 LMR probes were terrible. now im in the process of changing the limit switches to improve homing repeatability and fix sticky switches.
You know, now that I think about it, when I first got mine hooked up it was also all over the place too. When I pulled it apart it seemed 2 things were going against repeatability. I found the grease was substantially increasing the amount of force required to trigger the probe. The other issue was alignment of the ball contact PCB. I did the loosen the PCB screws and let things settle into their happy place and removed the grease and used a product called ACF-50.
We use that stuff in avionics and essentially every electrical connector in the airplanes we work on. It’s an oxidation and corrosion protectant as well as a light lubricant. We apply it to aircraft structures also. Its primary purpose is corrosion protection and its used in very sensitive electronic components. Everything from de-ice valves and pneumatic switches prone to water ingress and freezing at altitude, AOA sensors, torque transducers, to panel screws to prevent corrosion and galling.
Took my probe apart this weekend to try and troubleshoot. Appears to be mechanical inconsistency on my end like you are suggesting. I would dial the probe in, test and the tip would run out again. I tried leaving the adjustment screws tight, dialing it in then loosening them, dialing it in then tightening the cap screws. No matter what I did it would be inconsistent after pushing the tip every time and I had a really hard time getting the tip to settle back in to where I dialed it in the first time.
Did your modifications keep the probe consistent in the long run? Any pictures to show how much you polished the cups or how much stronger a spring you used?
Id have to take it apart but i Just polished it enough that it was smooth to the touch with a dremel and used a longer spring of the same diameter that i had in a box of assorted chinesium springs. I really do believe the thing that made the biggest difference was the wire extensions. I was having the same issues you are talking about where you’d zero it manually, then if you touched the probe it was no longer concentric, I haven’t had those issues since then. The X axis ball screw just pooped the bed so i may have time to take the probe apart again and take some pictures
Took the probe apart again tonight. I have to say Thirdwings approach is more professional, but this was quick and free. I just stripped as much insulation off the red wire as possible to give it more flex. Since it ties the board to the probe tip, I believe this is just a ground and the insulation is kind of unnecessary anyway? It cannot short on anything that it already is touching, the probe tip is connected to the body via the spring so figured I’d give it a shot. After stripping what I could reach, I reassembled.
Then I followed the Langmuir guide and loosened the screws holding the ball contacts and resnugged. After dialing it in, the probe repeated multiple times, enough that I was satisfied. Will see how it holds up in the long run.
I can’t wait I really need one.