Poor electrical engineering, plain and simple. There’s no reason to have logic voltages present on any external components of a system. Rather than fix their poor design choice they decided to use plastic spacers to isolate the control box. Don’t even get me started on their spindle screw-up.
In 40 years I’ve never seen a design error “corrected” in that way.
The electrical on the machine has multiple puzzles, the probe is just one of them. But I was talking about another aspect of the design. I’ll explain tomorrow with drawings. Probes are normally very simple with 3 switches in series, but their design is more complex requiring 3 parallel switches going into an annd circuit. I think mechanically may lead to issues too.
The probe is fine, the limit switches are fine, it’s easy to stand back and point out 2 or 3 things, and discount the infinite other things that work flawlessly. Few people are having issues, and most are making parts. You bought a hobby machine that’s quite new and they’re working out bugs as people use the machines. You can only get so far with in-house testing, and eventually you have to let the user’s feedback guide you. No product in existence has been perfect upon initial release, that’s why people always say “I’m going to wait a year or two”. Like it or not you have to take some responsibility for buying something that’s been on the market less than a year. Those of us not complaining understand that, and are working through the process. It’s not that painful unless you refuse to accept that’s it’s ONLY a $6k machine, and that nothing is perfect. I’ve ran $350k CMM machines that had issues for months, and they were newer models, and as such had things still getting worked out.
I didn’t say it was painful, and I’m getting good results out of my machine and acceptable results out of the probe. However there are some very odd designs in the machine, and it’s worth pointing out that the probe is one of them.
If I were buying again today I would have bought the same machine but with a different probe.
Amen. I could not have said it better.
Drain problem. They fixed all new machines with a new center drain.
Limit switches: all new machines have waterproof switches.
Small drivers: All machines come with upgraded drivers.
I’ll bet the probe issue will be handled soon.
Though I agree with a lot of your statement - there’s also a point in which when a product is promised to have at minimum the functionality advertised, it should be expected to perform as such.
I 100% agree on the gamble, however I think it’s also expected that with the gamble it would be understood that the company and early backers would clearly communicate on issues to not only develop a better product - but also to help resolve issues users are having to restore functionality.
The lack of response from LS indicates that they know the problem, but don’t want to comment on it until either they have a proper solution. Which I understand from both LS point of view and the consumer. But at the end of the day (Bigdaddy source) a 66% failure rate on touch probes is a problem that needs to be addressed.
I think the actual issue here is communication. Even a “We’re aware some users are experiencing issues with their probes, we’re looking into it and seeing what can be done. Please list your issues in detail below, perhaps send it back to LS for diagnostics and warranty, etc”.
If LS can work with the community on diagnosing the issue, I wouldn’t mind buying another touch probe at a discounted rate given the fact we already paid for a working touch probe.
In the meantime the Haimer gauge is absolutely fantastic. But a digital probe is so much more convenient.
In my experience with ‘better’ machines, new or otherwise, any issues in design or workmanship was corrected with free replacement parts or upgraded parts once design improvements were made. Sure they seem to be covering the workmanship issues but crickets on everything else. Failing spindle bearings so far is all I’ve seen them being proactive about.
The simple fact that Bigdaddy bought 3 probes to find one he was able to get functioning properly instead of them sending him exchange probes or better yet, testing one before sending it is asinine.
At this point early adopters paid for final development and testing but getting none of the benefit. My machine at least works, many however do not and those guys don’t appear to be getting any resolution at least from what I gather in the forums.
Its still not a $40K machine and i knew that going in but i also expect to get a working machine, no matter how budget friendly the offering. If I wanted a box of parts to have to troubleshoot and redesign just to make it do what it said it was capable of doing from the get go I would have went with an import Amazon special.
I would say it does have, at a minimum, the functionality advertised. It’s not 100% across the board, but it’s pretty high. Definitely not a 66% failure rate. My probe works fine, numerous other people have mentioned theirs work fine, and hundreds of people haven’t had enough of an issue to complain. But that doesn’t there isn’t, or wouldn’t be, some problems with the design or assembly process.
Could communication be better? Yes, absolutely. But consider they have hundreds of people building these machines, and who knows how many are not qualified to do so…all with questions. I think there have been a lot of unfair accusations levelled at Langmuir based on my own experience, and the experiences of others, regarding what they may or may not know and what they may or may not be “ignoring”. Sure, some people have, and will have, bad experiences. But I don’t think those people stop to think about the tremendous task of dealing with hundreds of people putting together their first CNC kit. And meanwhile, keep happy all the people with high expectations.
I guess I’ve been through this so many times with new high end machines, that I have the patience to see it through.
I’ve dealt with probably 20 brand new large industrial machines over the years. Not everything is covered under warrantee. But most of it is. I’ve never had a situation where upgraded parts or improved designs were free.
I don’t know the behind the scenes situation with BigDaddy, but I do know he’s one person, and his experience doesn’t qualify as the end-all of how Langmuir handles problems. They’ve helped me 2x with free replacement parts, and one other when it was mostly my fault, and they discounted the parts. I think that was pretty awesome, and cancels out his experience…lol
Nobody ever gets reimbursed for buying early on a new release. I didn’t buy a new 2016 tacoma because I wanted to let the bugs get worked out, and bought the 2017 instead. Glad I did. But those 2016 owners got nothing for their time and trouble. That’s just how business works.
There aren’t a lot of machines with issues. There are a couple dozen people reiterating complaints constantly. There are hundreds of machines and not hundreds of people here complaining. I think they’ve been pretty successful.
Show me a box of parts that when put together, works perfectly. Any kit I’ve ever bought required adjustments and often modifications…that’s literally why I buy kit form.
Langmuir has handled my probe problems without a single question. I originally wanted a backup probe. They replaced a probe for the one I use now. I never said or implied that they left me out to dry.
I am genuinely sorry that I even commented on this subject. Things get assumed and amplified. Trust me I have now learned my lesson.
I don’t want to make this seem like anyone was using your experience or contributions as a form of evidence or anything regarding LS. My mention of you was simply just to state that 1/3 of the probes you have are functional. That’s all. Please don’t feel that you were singled out or any of your information was used maliciously. I apologize that it seemed like your contribution was being used against you. Total apologies there man…
Totally agree again with the majority of the statement - but I think we’re mixing up (from the point I’m trying to make anyways) accusations of the entire kit being a dud which it absolutely is not. My machine is actually very capable and impressive given the price point. The issue is item specific (Probe). I would recommend the core machine to anyone inquiring, but I would suggest to them to wait it out until LS gets a better foothold on the issues current builders are having.
If we don’t have these discussions, then nothing gets done. Your example with your Toyota - is if a 2016 model has a glaring problem that disrupts it’s functionality as a vehicle - the manufacturer will issue a recall to affected vehicles with a solution to the problem. There may be 15 million 2016 Tacoma’s but if 250,000 vehicles are affected, it still warrants a recall for those 250,000 vehicles. Toyota will not simply say “Yeah well it was our first year model so oh well!” (Not insinuating any similarities to LS with the probe issue, I’m just saying we need a discussion on how to resolve it for those affected)
However the point of this topic is the touch probe - so I’m gonna try to keep it on track with just the touch probe.
I recently made a forum post regarding some Y axis issues im having and awesome-ly @langmuir-daniel responded with some advice. I’m hoping for some similar advice/support on behalf of LS as towards a resolution for the individuals affected by probe problems. Sending another probe with crossed fingers it’s one that will work - has proven to not be a good solution in prior situations.
Let’s see if we can also take it down a notch 
I would agree to your point about people complaining. I have no idea how many machines are in service let alone how many don’t have a single issue. A forum is just like a review system, the only people who are going to leave a review are the ones who either had a very bad experience or the ones who had a stellar one. Either way, should be taken with a grain of salt.
I dont have many issues with my machine or any of the hardware. The software is surely lacking but that will improve with time, especially with customer input.
In the mid 90s I had a 3 year old Fadal. I got a call from the dealer saying they identified a reliability issue with the early version of the cpu card and wanted to know when they could install it. It showed up in the mail a few days later with a tech, didn’t cost me a dime. I’ve had a similar experience with our Haas ATC actuator. Perhaps its just our dealer going the extra mile and not an industry standard thing but I assumed it was.
Ive also taken my truck back to the dealer for several “reliability and drive ability” improvements, also free. Sounds like Toyota has a poor customer service model.
But I digress, I forgot to relize that even though it appears a lot of people in the forums are having issues, its a small fraction of the total population. I have faith that LS will resolve all the bugs in their product. Some communication to this community would likely reduce the temperature in the furnace perhaps.
I’m very curious if LS has identified any root causes for the probe errors. I am glad to hear they are getting the faulty/questionable probes back
I hope they’re not just tossing them and identifying the specific issues.
Im in agreeance - I think just more communication and transparency would go a long way. But I also understand the position LS is in when it comes to this kind of stuff. My intent with this thread was just to have an open discussion.
If it turns out that there’s a completely obvious user error among people experiencing probe issues - then sweet - at least we know what the dealio is. There always going to be manufacturer defects sure - but if the consensus is that a more indepth instruction guide to your LS touch probe (and maybe how to identify if there is in fact a fault or inconsistency with the probes ability) thatd certainly help out the community - but also filter out legitimate defects as opposed to user error on LS quality control side. I know there’s a document floating around on setting probe concentricity.
I don’t really have any answers - just discussing.
I certainly can see how people are having issues with concentricity as well as the resultant errors. I’ve heard stories of some chucking them in their lathe’s and dialing them in like a 4 jaw job. Personally I used the X-boss probe routine and watched machine coordinates. I’d probe it once, watch the machine coordinate and then rotate the probe 180° and run the routine again, make an adjustment and repeat. Do the same in both X and Y of the probe. I was able to get to <.0003" repeatable in about 15 min doing it that way. Can also use the method to do a quick 2 min verification of the probe.
If enough people are interested in that method or if others think a video would be helpful I’d be happy to make a video explaining and demonstrating the process. Perhaps that’s all the kind of help some are looking for. I’m certain there are other methods, maybe even better ones. This one worked very well for me and I didn’t require any external tooling to do it.
They have made some effort to address common issues…a few people have been able to solve their problems, but not everybody.
There it is. Thanks for finding this!
You’re welcome! I just happened to come across it buried in another probe discussion thread a few weeks ago. I’ve shared it a few times since it’s hard to find! It really should be in it’s own pinned thread.
I don’t know if this will help any one, but I had a customer who wanted a lot of weird small aluminum parts so I decided to take another run at the touch probe. I took it apart polished the cups inside the probe used a stronger spring, soldered a longer wire in instead of the stubby red one and reinstalled everything after a very thorough cleaning, my original issue was that I would get very inconsistent zeros, and if I put a micrometer on it and moved the stylus it would come out of concentricity by about 10 or 15 tho in a random direction. I had rebuilt it twice before both with some success but never actually good and usable results. however one of the things i did this time actually helped. putting an indicator on it if i push the stylus out (a lot) it will come back to almost the same place. I spent around 10 minutes abusing it to see if it was a fluke and it was coming in within about a half thousands concentric give or take a tenths. Now thats good enough to make some parts. If any one else is having similar troubles the project took pennies to do.
This is the way, i too had to switch to Haimer NG since my 2 LMR probes were terrible. now im in the process of changing the limit switches to improve homing repeatability and fix sticky switches.