Can't cut new drawings. Error: Torch starts moving before cutting voltage was sensed. UPDATE!

CrossFire ® PRO
1

I opened Firecontrol (since a while) and it said there was an update ready. So I first updated firecontrol.
And now it won’t work as it used to do.
It starts firing, but almost immediately gives the error: Torch starts moving before cutting voltage was sensed.

So I wasn’t able to cut out my new drawings. Than I got a old drawing that I made in Solid Edge and already ran the postprocessor on it in sheetcam. So it already was in G codes, and it cut the file without any problem.
So I opened the old test drawing in sheetcam again and ran the postprocessor in sheetcam and than it doesn’t work. Same error (Torch starts…)
So the problem is with the communication between sheetcam and the Firecontrol and started after the update.

Any help please, I don’t know what to do

Thanks,
Joep (The Netherlands)

2

Some info:
Crossfire pro with thc (Selco genisis 30 amp plasmacutter)
sheetcam
drawings with Solid Edge 2021

20210131_181137
20210131_1811374032×1860 1.82 MB

https://youtu.be/DIi2sh-lzEo video of the error of the new drawing
https://youtu.be/gQWorgtinBg video where it works properly with the old G codes/ run post processor in sheetcam

3

in order to ensure proper installation of the latest software upgrade you need to go to your control panel and delete Fire Control from the PC using add/remove programs.
then you need to delete the folder in your profile called Firecontrol…

then you need to re-download and install the Firecontrol program…

then try it…

4

already did that. I saw that reply at another topic with a similar problem(I think it was yours as well) and tried it already. You were right, there still was a folder after deleting the program. So I thought that would solve the problem. But it didn’t.

5

Attach the two GCODE files you used in your videos. Either by dragging and dropping them into the reply window or clicking on the up arrow icon in the reply window.

However, after watching your first video I might suspect pierce delay is set too short in the one with the problem. What material are you cutting and what do you have the pierce delay set to?

6

The pierce delay is in both video’s the same: -1 -10 +1 +10

G codes of the one that works:
(v1.6-sc)
G90 G94
G17
G21 (Units: Metric)
H0
G0 X149.744 Y35.956

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z1.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z0.1 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X150.0 Y35.7 I0.256 J0.0 F1550.0
G3 X174.3 Y60.0 I0.0 J24.3
G3 X150.0 Y84.3 I-24.3 J0.0
G3 X125.7 Y60.0 I0.0 J-24.3
G3 X150.0 Y35.7 I24.3 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X179.744 Y26.956

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z1.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z0.1 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X180.0 Y26.7 I0.256 J0.0 F1550.0
G3 X183.3 Y30.0 I0.0 J3.3
G3 X180.0 Y33.3 I-3.3 J0.0
G3 X176.7 Y30.0 I0.0 J-3.3
G3 X180.0 Y26.7 I3.3 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X179.744 Y86.956

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z1.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z0.1 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X180.0 Y86.7 I0.256 J0.0 F1550.0
G3 X183.3 Y90.0 I0.0 J3.3
G3 X180.0 Y93.3 I-3.3 J0.0
G3 X176.7 Y90.0 I0.0 J-3.3
G3 X180.0 Y86.7 I3.3 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X119.744 Y86.956

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z1.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z0.1 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X120.0 Y86.7 I0.256 J0.0 F1550.0
G3 X123.3 Y90.0 I0.0 J3.3
G3 X120.0 Y93.3 I-3.3 J0.0
G3 X116.7 Y90.0 I0.0 J-3.3
G3 X120.0 Y86.7 I3.3 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X119.744 Y26.956

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z1.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z0.1 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X120.0 Y26.7 I0.256 J0.0 F1550.0
G3 X123.3 Y30.0 I0.0 J3.3
G3 X120.0 Y33.3 I-3.3 J0.0
G3 X116.7 Y30.0 I0.0 J-3.3
G3 X120.0 Y26.7 I3.3 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X190.256 Y9.044

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z1.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z0.1 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X190.0 Y9.3 I-0.256 J0.0 F1550.0
G1 X110.0
G2 X99.3 Y20.0 I0.0 J10.7
G1 Y100.0
G2 X110.0 Y110.7 I10.7 J0.0
G1 X190.0
G2 X200.7 Y100.0 I0.0 J-10.7
G1 Y20.0
G2 X190.0 Y9.3 I-10.7 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
M5 M30
(PS1550)

G codes of the one that fails (this is not the one in the youtube movie, but this is exactly the same drawing as the one above, only postprocessing after the update. :
(v1.6-sc)
G90 G94
G17
G21 (Units: Metric)
H0
G0 X48.08 Y27.67

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P1
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X50.0 Y25.75 I1.92 J0.0 F1500.0
G3 X74.25 Y50.0 I0.0 J24.25
G3 X50.0 Y74.25 I-24.25 J0.0
G3 X25.75 Y50.0 I0.0 J-24.25
G3 X50.0 Y25.75 I24.25 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X78.4915 Y19.0077

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P1
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X80.0 Y16.75 I1.8831 J-0.3746 F1500.0
G3 X83.25 Y20.0 I0.0 J3.25
G3 X80.0 Y23.25 I-3.25 J0.0
G3 X76.75 Y20.0 I0.0 J-3.25
G3 X80.0 Y16.75 I3.25 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X78.4915 Y79.0077

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P1
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X80.0 Y76.75 I1.8831 J-0.3746 F1500.0
G3 X83.25 Y80.0 I0.0 J3.25
G3 X80.0 Y83.25 I-3.25 J0.0
G3 X76.75 Y80.0 I0.0 J-3.25
G3 X80.0 Y76.75 I3.25 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X18.4915 Y79.0077

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P1
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X20.0 Y76.75 I1.8831 J-0.3746 F1500.0
G3 X23.25 Y80.0 I0.0 J3.25
G3 X20.0 Y83.25 I-3.25 J0.0
G3 X16.75 Y80.0 I0.0 J-3.25
G3 X20.0 Y76.75 I3.25 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X18.4915 Y19.0077

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P1
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X20.0 Y16.75 I1.8831 J-0.3746 F1500.0
G3 X23.25 Y20.0 I0.0 J3.25
G3 X20.0 Y23.25 I-3.25 J0.0
G3 X16.75 Y20.0 I0.0 J-3.25
G3 X20.0 Y16.75 I3.25 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X91.92 Y-2.67

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P1
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X90.0 Y-0.75 I-1.92 J0.0 F1500.0
G1 X10.0
G2 X-0.75 Y10.0 I0.0 J10.75
G1 Y90.0
G2 X10.0 Y100.75 I10.75 J0.0
G1 X90.0
G2 X100.75 Y90.0 I0.0 J-10.75
G1 Y10.0
G2 X90.0 Y-0.75 I-10.75 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
M5 M30
(PS1500)

Hope this helps

7

these are the g codes of the fail in the video:
(v1.6-sc)
G90 G94
G17
G21 (Units: Metric)
H0
G0 X29.5 Y42.0

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G2 X21.5 Y50.0 I0.0 J8.0 F1500.0
G2 X29.5 Y58.0 I8.0 J0.0
G1 X170.5
G2 X178.5 Y50.0 I0.0 J-8.0
G2 X170.5 Y42.0 I-8.0 J0.0
G1 X29.5
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X16.5 Y47.5

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G2 X14.0 Y50.0 I0.0 J2.5 F1500.0
G2 X16.5 Y52.5 I2.5 J0.0
G2 X19.0 Y50.0 I0.0 J-2.5
G2 X16.5 Y47.5 I-2.5 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X16.5 Y12.5

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G2 X14.0 Y15.0 I0.0 J2.5 F1500.0
G2 X16.5 Y17.5 I2.5 J0.0
G2 X19.0 Y15.0 I0.0 J-2.5
G2 X16.5 Y12.5 I-2.5 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X29.5 Y7.0

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G2 X21.5 Y15.0 I0.0 J8.0 F1500.0
G2 X29.5 Y23.0 I8.0 J0.0
G1 X170.5
G2 X178.5 Y15.0 I0.0 J-8.0
G2 X170.5 Y7.0 I-8.0 J0.0
G1 X29.5
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X183.5 Y12.5

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G2 X181.0 Y15.0 I0.0 J2.5 F1500.0
G2 X183.5 Y17.5 I2.5 J0.0
G2 X186.0 Y15.0 I0.0 J-2.5
G2 X183.5 Y12.5 I-2.5 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X183.5 Y47.5

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G2 X181.0 Y50.0 I0.0 J2.5 F1500.0
G2 X183.5 Y52.5 I2.5 J0.0
G2 X186.0 Y50.0 I0.0 J-2.5
G2 X183.5 Y47.5 I-2.5 J0.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X200.0 Y60.0

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X195.0 Y65.0 I-5.0 J0.0 F1500.0
G1 X5.0
G3 X0.0 Y60.0 I0.0 J-5.0
G1 Y40.0
G3 X5.0 Y35.0 I5.0 J0.0
G1 X195.0
G3 X200.0 Y40.0 I0.0 J5.0
G1 Y60.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
G0 X200.0 Y25.0

G92 Z0.
G38.2 Z-127.0 F2540.0
G38.4 Z12.7 F508.0
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z0.508 (IHS Backlash)
G92 Z0.0
G0 Z3.0 (Pierce Height)
M3
G4 P0.5
G1 Z1.5 F100.0 (Cut Height)
H1
G3 X195.0 Y30.0 I-5.0 J0.0 F1500.0
G1 X5.0
G3 X0.0 Y25.0 I0.0 J-5.0
G1 Y5.0
G3 X5.0 Y0.0 I5.0 J0.0
G1 X195.0
G3 X200.0 Y5.0 I0.0 J5.0
G1 Y25.0
H0
M5
G0 Z25.4
M5 M30
(PS1500)

8

Working

Not working

The non working one has a pierce height of 3mm and a cut height of 1.5mm with a 0.5 delay and a plunge rate of 100mm/min

The one that works has a pierce height of 1mm, a cut height of 0.1mm with a delay of 0.5 and a plunge rate of 100mm/min.

I honestly have never used mm settings in Sheetcam and am a bit confused by the values used for plunge rate (100mm/min) … but lets ignore that for now.

Why are your pierce and cut heights so different? Are you cutting the same material in each case?
Are these the values you expect to see?

The one that works seems to have values that shouldn’t work and the one that fails has values that should work. In the one that works your cut height is 0.1mm, 0.004". It’s basically dragging on the sheet. Are you using a drag tip? Then that would make sense.

Attach the sheetcam job file, you’ll need to zip it first.

9

the one that works:
testplaat1.zip (550 Bytes)

the same drawing that doesn’t work:
testplaat13.zip (560 Bytes)

10

Those are the generated gcode .tap files. I would need the .job files (The sheetcam project file).

And you didn’t answer my questions.

11

Now, I compared the two G codes of the same drawings. It’s correct that there is some change on the height. But because it failed cutting I increased the torch height.

But another difference between the two is that all the X coordinates increased by a 100 and all the Y increased by 10. But both are the same drawings. How is that possible?

I would say the problem is not in Firecontrol, but in sheetcam. Do I need to update the postprocessor in sheetcam after the firecontrol upgrade?

12

It looks like you are using 1.6 of the post processor. Which is the latest.

I would say the problem is not in Firecontrol, but in sheetcam

That would not explain your pierce problem. If you recently imported the drawing into Sheetcam you may have got the scale wrong.

I would start over with a very simple test, use the same pierce delay/pierce height/cut height that worked, assuming the same material. AND make sure work CLAMP is on material.

13

No but it explanes the difference between the two different gcodes coordinates for the same drawing. I thought those ‘plus 100’ on the x axle mess things up. So the postprocessor doesn’t work the same anymore.
Maybe reinstall Sheetcam end reinstall the Firecontrol postprocessor and see what happens.

But maybe your test first…

I hope I’ll find time to look in to that tonight, otherwise tomorrow.
Many thanks so far for all the help. Hopefully the bug comes out soon.

14

So I had the time today to spend on the plasma today.
Did some trial and error on the pierce height, cut height settings as well as the pierce delay.
Pierce height 3 mm, cut height 1 mm and pierce delay 0.5 or 0.6 0r 1 second didn’t work

Made a new simple drawing, set the pierce height as well as the cut height both on 1mm. And it worked again. Than increased the pierce hight to 3 mm and it failed again.

The error is always the same. TORCH STARTS MOVING BEFORE CUTTING VOLTAGE WAS SET.
But the torch fires every time and pierces the plate (1.5 mm steel), but as soon as it is supposed to move it gives the error.

Changed al the parts in the torch (electrode, etc.), to be sure that was not the problem.

No I would like to download an older version (20.5) of Firecontrol. Is that still possible? I can’t find it. I can only find a 20.2 version.

Hope anyone can help
Thanks

15

I just looked up your plasma cutter, appears that its a high frequency start machine and not compatible with the CrossFire Pro Electronics.

16

Are you sure? It’s the selco genesis 30.
Back than I called the selling company for that info. They said it wasn’t. But maybe they were wrong and you are right.
But would it work the first time if it is a HF plasmacutter?

Can you tell me where you found the info?

17

Joep…you got the answer right from the representative of Langmuir…if Daniel says it is not compatible …then it is not compatible…

using it will can ruin your system

18

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/949937/Selco-Genesis-30.html?page=5#manual

2.0 introduction
it says: …the ignition of the pilot arc takes place without the use of high frequency…

1 Like
19

there you go…no high frequency on Langmuir systems…blowback start only

20

I don’t get it?
Sorry, maybe it is my bad englisch (I am from the Netherlands). But as I understand, my plasmacutter is without the use of HF. That’s what the manual says, doesn’t it? Or am I missing something here?