Trouble cutting 3/8” with Crossfire Pro and Primeweld Cut60 (Not solved yet)

CrossFire ® PRO
501

I’m posting this again because it got buried

From Thomas at Langmuir Systems:

“FireControl freeze to me seems unrelated to THC voltage signal coming from Primeweld. A “Torch moved before arc” error would be reason to connect raw voltage to VIM versus the current divided voltage connection. Does anyone relate the FireControl freeze to connecting to raw?”

Can someone who is more intelligent than I please weigh in on Thomas’ last response?

I asked if he thought I should try wiring to raw voltage yet, because of Primeweld’s history of CNC port voltage divider issues, and the fact that nothing else we’ve tried really seems to be working.

@TinWhisperer, can you offer any insight? Please?

I’m not afraid to wire my machine to raw voltage against Langmuir’s instruction; I’m not looking for permission. But this was a fairly coherent question, and I’d like to provide an equally coherent answer.

502

Does it freeze with the torch firing?

@CrazyCasey it’s to bad you don’t live in Puerto Rico. They post everything in metric and English units there… twice as many options available and nobody would miss the metric ones. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

to bad those political yard signs aren’t made of metal. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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503

Did they tell you not to do that?

Interesting they suggest doing it on the Primeweld PSA

504

I hope the FBI doesn’t show up to check all of our garages for freeway signs. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

…just trying to come up with something so I could get the 500th post! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::joy:

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505

The only times it has frozen WITH the torch firing was for the brief moment that I had the torch and work clamp leads connected to each other with zip ties. Typically it will freeze well into a cut; often near the very end of the cut, in the now dozens (hundreds?) of straight line tests I have performed.

Yes, both the Langmuir support person, Thomas, and Gene with Primeweld have told me repeatedly that there is no point in wiring to raw voltage, and that divided voltage is not causing FireControl to freeze. Thomas has said that there’s not any evidence to suggest divided voltage isn’t working exactly as it should be, and that voltage signal to FireControl has not historically caused interference or freezing for other users.

I should say that both of them seem fairly invested in my figuring the issues out. Thomas has spent hours on my issues, and I’m sure he’s not cheap for Langmuir (I get the impression that he is an independent consultant). Gene just kind of seems like he doesn’t want to send me a THIRD plasma cutter, but at the same time like he probably would if I leaned on him a little.

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506

Would answered earlier but I had a hard week and fell asleep after dinner

I don’t think I’m about to start contradicting your manufacturers troubleshooting advice at this point in the game.

But.

The reason I would try it is because if you have an unreliable voltage measurement which your torch height control relies on it’s not going to work reliably, also it has the potential to overwhelm and freeze fire control with bad data.

Given primeweld’s voltage dividing history I’m not sure why you would avoid trying this?

And ironically on your first post to this forum site it’s the one of the concerns you had before ordering this system.

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507

Thank you, @TinWhisperer. Sorry you had a rough week.

Like I said, I’m keen to try raw voltage just because I’m running out of other things to try.

And, it’s not the process of re-wiring the VIM that gives me pause, but all the metal I will have to cut up waiting for it to fail again after I do. That’s what this has become; every iteration is half a day between the mods and testing.

I will add, that, in every single cut for the last several weeks now, my voltages have been rock steady until they freeze. I’ve determined nominal voltage settings for 1/4” steel, 1/8” steel, 14ga aluminum, and 22ga steel, and I’ve performed 100’s of cuts on those various materials, now, with voltages staying exactly where they’re supposed to, and THC doing exactly what it’s supposed to, throughout the entire cut, until FireControl freezes. Cut quality has been excellent, since I learned how to properly set the IHS and started using nominal voltage. And every time THC has “freaked out” it was because of warped metal, or a programmed speed change, combined with FC freezing at the worst possible moment.

I now have ~1000 pierces and about an hour of torch time on the machine, mostly in straight line cuts.

I’m probably either going to try raw voltage tomorrow, or drive to the nearest Harbor Freight and buy another plasma just to try that, as I, Langmuir, and this forum, seem to be out of other ideas, BUT, I feel very strongly that neither of these things are going to work. I think the problem is in my electronics enclosure or USB connection to my laptop.

508

If ordering a Hypertherm tomorrow came with a guarantee that this thing would just work I would do it in a heartbeat. But I’ve spent ~$5,000+ on a system that doesn’t work, and as stubborn as I’m sure it sounds, I don’t think it’s the plasma cutter’s fault. Especially after how much better things got from isolating the USB port…

509

You don’t have to be sorry, I just work hard at work so by the end of the week I am tired physically and mentally.

If moving it over to raw voltage doesn’t fix your problem at least you can check another box off your list of things you’ve tried.

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510

Yeah, that’s why I’m sure I’ll end up doing it.

511

There’s a really good walkthrough on the site on how to hook up that raw voltage do you have that document?

I think @nicaDd posted it at one time.

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512

I have to look it up again, but I know the one you mean, and have seen it. Thank you very much for your time. Sorry if it always seems like I’m challenging what you suggest; it’s not intentional.

513

It’s all good.

You’re wise to challenge people giving advice at arm’s length from the internet.

I sure do not bat a 1.000

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514

Casey, have you tried running with Firecontrol version 20.6.2? I know it eliminates the limit switches, but it may help to determine if the freezing is software related. I’m still running it, because of all of the reports of freezing and voltage lost issues that started when the 21 series of Firecontrol was released.

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515

@CrazyCasey do you have a scrap yard locally? You can buy metal on the cheap there. I totally understand not wanting to burn up metal

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516

Casey have you tried to run the table without the THC?
I agree with loading 20.6.
Wire that cutter up raw voltage and test it.
Remember the red lead is the work cable.
Send me the length of your work cable so I can make you a copper Faraday sleave.
Put that prime weld on Ebay or Craigs list.
I’m not kidding…
Anybody considering this machine needs their head examined.
A large portion of this type of problem has one thing in common. PrimeWeld Cut 60!!
Just my two cents.
Okay guys I’m ready for the Primeweld hate mail. It’s the truth. For an additional $300 dollars you could get a Everlast and been cutting without the drama. Casey could have bought a Hypertherm by now, with all the wasted steel and prosac.
I should reiterate this statement… It seems to be not suited for this CNC table. I’m not saying it not a good plasma cutter. I’m saying it was removed from the appoved list a couple of years ago just for this reason. Not sure how it made it back. Well that’s just my opinion.

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517

No angry person at my end, you just keep rambling on and on, you are not cut out for cnc plasma cutting… You are lacking basic skills of using fabrication tools…

518

Okay, I’ll bite. I’ve had the Primeweld Cut60 for 3 years. Awesome machine. Awesome company. Have one of their 225amp TIG welders too. Smooth as silk, especially the Arc weld. Their 180 amp MIG w/spool gun is on my wish list.

Even if today I found out it was the cause of the failures I’ve had, I would’nt be overly disappointed in it because of how well it works as a general hand torch. I’d buy another unit for CNC and keep C60 for other duties. It would have been a good buy even if they had never added CNC capability to the design, so if I find that it is incompatible with a Langmuir system, no tragedy to me.

The first day I had it, I decided to push it to the limit. I spend about an hour gouging through a piece of 3/4 gauge railroad track to make an anvil for a friend. Never a hiccup.

Some people say if you don’t like the price of fuel right now you should have bought a plug-in hybrid. I will when I have too :grin:

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519

Sorry that I don’t make you feel warm and fuzzy, I do hope you get this figured out, but it doesn’t help that you are given things to try, and you don’t try fix until you post a bunch of other issues that could be caused by something that was given to you to try earlier. I would defiantly try wiring plasma cutter raw voltage it has been issues for others on this forum in years past. You might have a bad electronics box on table??? something in box heats up causing issues or loose component in box.

520

I don’t mind being jabbed at, and that’s why I fire right back at you. You say that you want me to figure it out, and I appreciate that.

But you’re also being kind of mean, dude. You tell me I lack the “basic skills for using fabrication tools”, of which CNC plasma is really kind of in a category by itself. I’m a competent welder, and I’ve built chassis, suspension, and roll cages, all with hand tools. I’m entirely self taught. I worked previously for a race car shop that currently holds a World Record at Pike’s Peak, where my labor billed out for $150/hr, but I’m incredibly humble about the skills I do possess, and come into everything new that I try assuming I know nothing about it.

Last year I moved my family out of the Bay Area, California, out into the middle of the high desert. I left a good-paying job of 12 years to raise my two year old daughter, and focus on my fabrication skills, and hopefully turn those into a business. I bought a Langmuir table, and about $10,000 worth of other equipment that I lost access to when we moved away from the shop. And then my wife got laid off, so now the pressure is back on me.

Yes, things have been suggested that I have not tried. As I have had about 20 people suggesting things, I have tried to look for commonality of things being suggested, and try those first. I also have things being suggested by Langmuir, and three separate DM conversations full of suggestions that I am also trying. It is enough to make anyone’s head spin.

I too suspect that there is something in the box misbehaving, and the problems seem to get worse as the electronics heat up. The rising resistance of the USB circuit the longer the machine stays on also seems to point to this. But I can’t try a new box until I convince Langmuir’s support guy to go down that road with me.

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