Trouble cutting 3/8” with Crossfire Pro and Primeweld Cut60 (Not solved yet)

CrossFire ® PRO
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From Thomas at Langmuir Systems:

“FireControl freeze to me seems unrelated to THC voltage signal coming from Primeweld. A “Torch moved before arc” error would be reason to connect raw voltage to VIM versus the current divided voltage connection. Does anyone relate the FireControl freeze to connecting to raw?”

Can someone who is more intelligent than I please weigh in on Thomas’ last response?

I asked if he thought I should try wiring to raw voltage yet, because of Primeweld’s history of CNC port voltage divider issues, and the fact that nothing else we’ve tried really seems to be working.

@TinWhisperer, can you offer any insight?

489

USB cable? I’m open to trying this…

490

I would say go for it. As long as you are careful not to short something out it won’t hurt.

I wish I was close enough to bring one of my plasmas over and let you try.

Other than than about 400 bucks for a titanium at harbour freight you may be able to return.

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491

I’ve been connected via raw voltage from day 1 (Sep 2022) with my Cut60 and have had many FireControl freeze episodes. As I’ve stated previously, it has even frozen when I am just jogging my machine causing hard hits to the limits.

I have the Pro with machine torch, running a Dell Latitude, Win 10, 2.5 Ghz, 8GB ram.

Tomorrow I am going to be able to spend a good deal of time in the garage. I am going to confirm my conductivity/resistance and then isolate my USB (method TBD). This time of year my newly added air drying is having minimal output, so I believe any improvements will be from adding numerous ferrite chokes and USB isolation.

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492

For what it is worth, I checked the resistance of my USB collar to any bolt on the table, water table or even the sheet metal screws holding the enclosure cover on the electronics panel and mine measures infinite or in other words, so much resistance that the meter cannot register: no continuity at all.

I am of the school of thought like @Bigdaddy2166. It is hard to imagine that they (Langmuir engineers) are planning for 5K or 10K ohms resistance unless there is a resistor to make that happen. That being said, some of you are showing incredible evidence that seems to correlate to something positive that happens with your machine and your set-up that brings something into balance.

I lost track of who said it but maybe it is something to do with harmonics, interference and/or reinforcement of a signal. We need Bones from StarTrek to scan it.

Note: No power was hooked to the table and neither was the Hyperthem unit.

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493

10k ohms ”insulation” between the USB port and the table (with unit powered on) came directly from Langmuir Systems tech support, Jim.

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image828×1343 168 KB

Screenshot from Austin’s conversations with the same technician I am also working with.

Thomas confirmed to me that I should have the 10k ohm reading as well, but wrote off my readings above 10k ohms as either equipment or user error with my meter.

Since then I have confirmed that my meter is accurate, and I’m still not getting the required 10k resistance value, which seems to point towards a USB shorting to ground issue.

At this point, I’m grasping at straws, but I think there has to be something there.

This also seems to be reinforced by the fact that my table works so much BETTER than it has previously with the USB port now isolated from the electronics enclosure, but there is still an issue with the USB, in my opinion.

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Yeah, @Wsidr1, I’m willing to try raw voltage because I’m running out of options (that don’t cost money), but I don’t think this is going to fix my issues, and NOBODY on this forum has been able to provide to me a lucid argument for WHY they think raw voltage is the answer, other than the fact that it’s worked for some people in the past, on a previous version of the machine that I am using.

I think there is something wrong inside my electronics enclosure.

But I think I’m going to have to go through THOUSANDS of dollars of steel and consumables to find it.

I have been working at this for over a month, and I’ve tried everything that’s been suggested, and really, I’m no further along than where I started.

People can call it whining, but, it’s kind of the truth.

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495

To isolate the usb socket, did you need to put any sideways pressure on it? What I am getting at: Is there a chance there is something loose in the circuit board, solder connection or the USB socket itself.

Some oblique pressure may be completing connection.

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496

There are always road signs…I didn’t say that.

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497

No, and I looked everything over very closely when I had the board out of the machine. I used four little aluminum washers that were small enough, and about 1/8 thick. Those are isolated by a 1/4” thick nylon spacer on the back of the board, and a thin nylon washer on top of the board. The USB port has an even air gap all the way around, now, and it feels quite firm when I plug the cable into it.

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498

:rofl: :joy: :rofl: :joy: :rofl: :joy:

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Thanks for amplifying that! :grimacing:

Edit: And I presently have NOOO project that has been made from a road sign and have no road signs in my garage.

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500

I mean, I knew you were joking… :wink:

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I’m posting this again because it got buried

From Thomas at Langmuir Systems:

“FireControl freeze to me seems unrelated to THC voltage signal coming from Primeweld. A “Torch moved before arc” error would be reason to connect raw voltage to VIM versus the current divided voltage connection. Does anyone relate the FireControl freeze to connecting to raw?”

Can someone who is more intelligent than I please weigh in on Thomas’ last response?

I asked if he thought I should try wiring to raw voltage yet, because of Primeweld’s history of CNC port voltage divider issues, and the fact that nothing else we’ve tried really seems to be working.

@TinWhisperer, can you offer any insight? Please?

I’m not afraid to wire my machine to raw voltage against Langmuir’s instruction; I’m not looking for permission. But this was a fairly coherent question, and I’d like to provide an equally coherent answer.

502

Does it freeze with the torch firing?

@CrazyCasey it’s to bad you don’t live in Puerto Rico. They post everything in metric and English units there… twice as many options available and nobody would miss the metric ones. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

to bad those political yard signs aren’t made of metal. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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503

Did they tell you not to do that?

Interesting they suggest doing it on the Primeweld PSA

504

I hope the FBI doesn’t show up to check all of our garages for freeway signs. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

…just trying to come up with something so I could get the 500th post! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::joy:

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505

The only times it has frozen WITH the torch firing was for the brief moment that I had the torch and work clamp leads connected to each other with zip ties. Typically it will freeze well into a cut; often near the very end of the cut, in the now dozens (hundreds?) of straight line tests I have performed.

Yes, both the Langmuir support person, Thomas, and Gene with Primeweld have told me repeatedly that there is no point in wiring to raw voltage, and that divided voltage is not causing FireControl to freeze. Thomas has said that there’s not any evidence to suggest divided voltage isn’t working exactly as it should be, and that voltage signal to FireControl has not historically caused interference or freezing for other users.

I should say that both of them seem fairly invested in my figuring the issues out. Thomas has spent hours on my issues, and I’m sure he’s not cheap for Langmuir (I get the impression that he is an independent consultant). Gene just kind of seems like he doesn’t want to send me a THIRD plasma cutter, but at the same time like he probably would if I leaned on him a little.

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506

Would answered earlier but I had a hard week and fell asleep after dinner

I don’t think I’m about to start contradicting your manufacturers troubleshooting advice at this point in the game.

But.

The reason I would try it is because if you have an unreliable voltage measurement which your torch height control relies on it’s not going to work reliably, also it has the potential to overwhelm and freeze fire control with bad data.

Given primeweld’s voltage dividing history I’m not sure why you would avoid trying this?

And ironically on your first post to this forum site it’s the one of the concerns you had before ordering this system.

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507

Thank you, @TinWhisperer. Sorry you had a rough week.

Like I said, I’m keen to try raw voltage just because I’m running out of other things to try.

And, it’s not the process of re-wiring the VIM that gives me pause, but all the metal I will have to cut up waiting for it to fail again after I do. That’s what this has become; every iteration is half a day between the mods and testing.

I will add, that, in every single cut for the last several weeks now, my voltages have been rock steady until they freeze. I’ve determined nominal voltage settings for 1/4” steel, 1/8” steel, 14ga aluminum, and 22ga steel, and I’ve performed 100’s of cuts on those various materials, now, with voltages staying exactly where they’re supposed to, and THC doing exactly what it’s supposed to, throughout the entire cut, until FireControl freezes. Cut quality has been excellent, since I learned how to properly set the IHS and started using nominal voltage. And every time THC has “freaked out” it was because of warped metal, or a programmed speed change, combined with FC freezing at the worst possible moment.

I now have ~1000 pierces and about an hour of torch time on the machine, mostly in straight line cuts.

I’m probably either going to try raw voltage tomorrow, or drive to the nearest Harbor Freight and buy another plasma just to try that, as I, Langmuir, and this forum, seem to be out of other ideas, BUT, I feel very strongly that neither of these things are going to work. I think the problem is in my electronics enclosure or USB connection to my laptop.