Hey everyone, I am having problems with my Crossfire table where it will only fire from the torch handle itself. It will not fire through FireControl.
It’s the base table to which I have added the switch limiters, THC, and IHS. I have updated all of my drivers and am running the most recent version of FireControl with compatibility. I have only completed 3 successful files using this system since I have purchased it back in June of 2023. I teach a Small Engine and machining class so it is hard to find time to troubleshoot a “brand new” unit. I also understand it’s hard for companies when I take this long to work through issues. I have email and called Langmuir support as well as Razorweld. Both companies have been helpful but the problem still persists. Because of how long it is taking me to troubleshoot I decided would post here as well because I know they are busy.
I can fire the torch through the hand trigger manually. I can not get the torch to fire when performing the THC Health test. I can not get it to fire by activating the torch on/off button up by the run program button. I am not receiving any errors in the computer system through FireControl. When I initially called Langmuir we ran through the THC troubleshooting chart checking voltages. I had also called Razorweld. Through both phone calls it was concluded that the plasma torch was not the issue. At that point Langmuir sent me a new THC module. I have inserted the new module and the unit still will not work. I have configured the unit through the CNC ports to the VIM, through the jumper wires into the VIM, and through raw voltage. In all cases, testing conductivity through the trigger and torch have been good. But in none of the configurations was the torch firing through FireControl when attempting to perform a straight cut or be activated through the on/off button. I have also test continuity through all wires and connection ports. I am receiving 254v out of the Torch On/Off port of the Razorweld. I am getting 0v out of the right port when activating via Manual Torch Fire in FireControl regardless which way I test the terminals with my DMM. If I fire the torch from the hand trigger I get approximately 2.3v from the Divider port. I have ran the THC Health check with the VIM plugged into the Torch On/Off port, showing the 254v, and disconnected the IHS plug as recommended in the programed warning with no change in results. I just ran a test, and have yet to discuss it with Langmuir support, but found that while FireControl shows 254v, my DMM only reads 5.28v when plugged into the Torch on/off port. I have scrounged the forums heavily to no avail. I have tested the relay on the MCB. It clicks on the bench and shows proper conductivity only when the relay is activated. I have checked the seating on the relay making sure it is firmly placed. I have gone through the THC and IHS installation instructions numerous times to ensure I have wired everything correctly. All my testing was done using the fine probes on my DMM to ensure they were reaching correctly. I have jumped the wires coming from the THC plug of the control box, white and gray, and that will fire the gun. I have tested the new THC module following the troubleshooting guide and it is working correctly. Is this a faulty MCB? I simply cannot get the computer to trigger the torch. At this point I don’t know what else to test?
seems like you have too much going on and connected. go back to the basics.
Unplug all the cables from the cutter. first test the relay in the control box. do a manual fire in firecontrol. do you hear the relay click in the control box when you press the fire button on/off? It should click when each time. if it doesn’t click , then the relay is bad. If it does click, then move on to the next thing.
grab the torch on /off cable and plug the one end into the contrl box port. plug the other end to either of the ports on the front of the cutter. if it fires then thats the torch on/off port. If it doesn’t then try the other port. one shold work. the other port will by the thc port.
I didn’t really read through the whole thing, but this line doesn’t make any sense.
There is nothing in the THC wiring that should trigger the torch.
The only wires that should fire the torch are the “torch on/off” wires.
Where is your torch on/off wire plugged in? It must be in the “torch on/off” port on the electronics enclosure. I’ve seen many people plug it into the open port on the VIM box by mistake.
If you unplug the torch on/off wire from the electronics enclosure, you can short across the inside and outside of the barrel connector on the end of the cable. That should fire the torch. If it doesn’t fire the torch, you have it plugged into the wrong port on the plasma cutter.
It definitaly feels as if I’ve gone down the rabbit hole. I’m going to do as you suggest. Although, I mentioned that I bench tested the relay to which it activated and showed proper continuity coinciding with the relay activating. Do you suppose its the board the relay is soldered to? Eitherway, I’m doing your test and I’ll try to post results tomorrow.
I hear what you’re saying. I’ve read it a few times in other forum posts and don’t quite understand myself. I have the “torch on/off” wire plugged into the torch port closest to the torch wire, the left port. From there it goes directly to the enclosure socket labeled “Torch On/Off”. I believe I already performed the test you suggested with both the Langmuir and Razorweld reps. But, that being said I’m going to try it again. I’ll try to post the results up tomorrow.
Alright fellas, here is the results of this mornings testing.
1st: With all the wires unplugged from the torch I attempted a manual fire. There was no clicking in the relay. As suggested that would indicate that the relay is bad. But, I again bench tested the relay and it responds as it should. I went further to test the pins on the board to which the relay is connected. Of the 4 pins the two in the center are the + and - for the relay with the outside pins being the circuit pass through. Additionally, there are two pins on the other end of the board which are also + and - accepting or supplying voltage the same time as the middle pins. I cannot find a fault in the relay or it’s connected board which suggests to me there is a problem in the MCB.
2nd: For giggles and the sake of being thorough I also went and tested the torch with the wires plugged in and still had no relay action. No change in results overall.
3rd: I went and jumped the torch wire at the barrel. It will light the torch when in the left hand port as designed but not out of the right hand port. As mentioned this does indicate that the torch ports are correct. It also indicates that there is no trigger signal getting sent to the torch on/off circuit.
4th: I followed the blue and orange torch on/off wires to the MCB. The are plugged into the upper right hand corner of the MCB. Blue goes to pin TRC1 and orange goes to TRC2. In that same connector there are white and black wires. White is on the 36V- pin while black is on the 36V+ pin. The black wire then goes to the far left connection of the power supply while the white goes to the fourth connection in from the left. The are the only wires connected to their respective connections.
5th: Again to be thorough, I jumped the torch on/off wire at the barrel while listening and feeling the relay. No change to relay action.
6th: Out of curiosity, knowing that I was able to get the torch to ignite from the THC wires I tested again to see if the relay responded when those were jumped. Nothing happened. No ignition or relay movement. So, I’m thinking in that previous test I made a mistake somewhere either in remembering what I jumped or plugged in. On the plus side it seems as though that is working correctly and I’m just tired of troubleshooting.
For the record, here is why I’m currently pushing hard to resolve this torch issue. I’m currently building a hot rod drag racing mower in front of my high school Small Engine classes. They all have their own projects as well. I’m trying to show them how learning CAD programs for CNC, 3D printing, and more can enable them to not only get good jobs but to build amazing machines.
I’m going to be cutting out motor mounts, custom dash, hood scoop and intake, seat pan, transmission input plate, boom tube exhaust parts, front steering and suspension mounts and components, etc. To build these I’m going to need the plasma running consistent so I can’t avoid troubleshooting for 100% performance anymore.
Just spoke with Zachary at Langmuir again. We ran through the bench test of the relay as well as jumping the torch on/off. It was concluded that the relay is in fact good and that the MCB is faulty somewhere so the voltage to activate the relay is not being sent. He has a new MCB on the way to me now. I appreciate the prompt service for sure! Once I get it installed I will report back.
With FireControl manual torch on, check to see if you have continuity across the two pins on the “torch on” port. If no, then your problem is inside the control box.
If yes, open up your plasma cutter and check the wiring from the port to the internals. You should be able to fire the torch by jumping across the two pins on the plasma cutter port.
So I received the new MCB from Langmuir and have got it installed. I went and started up the Firecontrol and immediately encountered two problems. The first was that on my mini desktop Firecontrol would register and then after a bit, from 5 seconds up to a couple minutes, and then lose communication. I made sure I had all the firmware and drivers for Firecontrol up to date with no change. I brought in my laptop and it is connecting much better so I think the issue is in the usb drivers of the mini computer. It’s a bit frusterating because the mini computer was connecting just fine before replacing the board. Oh well though, progress made.
My second issue that I am struggling with now is that I get an error message saying that my X and Y1 limit switches are showing as open so I can’t do anything else. I did not have this problem previously. So far I have tried cleaning all the connections and re-installing the drivers, again. No change.
Someday I will get to test the torch fire again and use this machine regularly. I’m not upset at Langmuir. I have similar problems on my MicroKinetics mill and lathe. I hate de-bugging CNC.
Go into FireControl and turn off the limit switches until you figure it out. The top right three lines-looking thing. Click on it, and you will get a screen to turn off the limit switches. Hopefully, you will save yourself some headaches by leaving them off.
The next thing is, what happened to the first board? Is the new board insulated from the control box with the plastic isolation washers? Is the outside of the control board printer-style port touching the control box housing?
OOooooh, I was just searching the forums and wondered if you were gonna show up for the limit switches.
So I did disable the limit switches as suggested and gain movement back on the board. Thanks! I would kinda like to have them working so I am going to continue troubleshooting them. For now anyway I have a work around. I’m just going to be very very careful. That being said, I did make sure that the isolation washers were installed. The outside of the printer USB port is touching the box housing ever so slightly. I tested for continuity between the port and the machine gantry and it was open. I also tested the switches for continuity and the are reading as closed.
Will do right now. It does seem odd. I also appear to have about 6V of live voltage reading in the THC readings. That is with the control box plugged into it’s own wall outlet and the laptop unplugged.
Well sometimes you need your peers to remind you not to be a knucklehead. I went back and checked the switch install instructions and saw that I had mixed up where I plug in the harness with the single black wire with the harness with the white and grey wires. Switched those and we now have switches and initial THC readings. I call it a victory because THE TORCH FIRES!
That being said, with the torch on I am getting no voltage out of the CNC port where I had it early. I’m going to double back and check harnesses there as well and check the CNC cable because I may have messed with it in my desperation weeks ago.
Thank you everyone so far! We are getting closer. Technically I could run a program right now with THC off so I’m feeling better.
Also, everything is running fine on my laptop. On my mini desktop I went through and updated all the Windows and hardware drivers. When I plug the control box into the mini it still shows as the the THC connecting but not the machine. The machine icon is muted and shows a COM port but won’t connect. I made the mistake of trying to update the firmware while connected to the mini. It didn’t change anything and then when I plugged it back into the laptop I had the same issue. I updated the firmware while connected to the laptop and and everything is back to normal. So the laptop is my main rig until I can get the mini software back up to snuff. I think it is a usb driver issue.
Alright, I’m going to investigate my CNC wire and report back!!
Double win! So I remember reading in another post about the CNC port plug being assembled with the wiring crossed. Earlier when I was fighting MCB I had cut the cable from the CNC port and crossed the wires to see if that would work. At the time it didn’t so I put the wires back, red to red and black to black. Well, now that everything was working except that voltage I went and crossed the wires again. Red to black and Black to red. Tested. Works. I have a fully operational unit.
Thank you everyone on here. I hope this thread can help others out in the future. Now to see if I can cut some motor mounts and 3D print some bushings.
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