Saga of CrossFire trouble shooting - used but never used table

Bought my CrossFire “used” but new and never cut anything. The original owner never put 220v power into his garage, so he could only turn on the table and move the axis around. This table was one of the first ones offered. I’m not sure of the official date, but the RazerWeld 45 had a 2018 tag, and the table has an aluminum water pan.

However, the owner bought everything new that came out for the table over time, all but the limit switches.

XL expansion kit
Mechanical torch upgrade for the RW45
THC Z-Axis upgrade kit, which also replaced his CPU with the current model and switched him to CrossFire controls.

If it were not for the THC and the upgraded CPU, I would have passed. But for a grand less than new, I was in.

The raw power feed for the THC was not yet installed on the OG RazorWeld 45, which never had the PC port. Following the install guides, it was easy to install into the RW45.

Did not trust the single bolt in sheer holding the thin legs on. I could see rolling the thing, hit a crack in the floor, and a leg folding. Welded a full brace/shelf just above the wheels on the legs.

I powered on the machine on January 24th, 2025. This has been the past 12 days.

THC Fail
Right off the bat, the THC was not working. I troubleshot the wiring and learned the extensive flow chart from Langmuir for testing. Laptop on battery, etc. I really got reacquainted with my testing meter. There was a dead fault in the Z axis. Eventually discovered, the little spring under the floating torch mount was kicked over from its pocket in the plastic (isolating) slide. The spring touched the Z axis and created a dead short. Once back in the pocket, she fired right up and worked great. I removed the “laptop stand” as it was in the splash zone, and it just made more sense to use a 15’ USB cable and run the laptop away from the table.

Don’t move the table!
Quickly discovered the easy-to-move little CF table has an issue with a pan full of water. No matter how slow you go, its going over the side of the pan. Everyone seems to have their water management system. I went with a used 15gl chemical jug under the table on the bracing I welded in on the lower legs. I have a 1.5" Stainless Tank bulkhead flange to put into the bottom of the pan to drain directly into the tank. I will just use the plasma cutter to cut the large hole in the pan. For now, I just siphon the water out, pick up the tank, and pour it back in for the two times I have moved the table out of the way. Simple works.

RW45 Machine Torch Fail
On about the 4th part ever cut on the table the machine torch would fire to pierce, then turn off. I messed with the program for pierce time, program speet etc. nothing. I then swapped over the new, never used hand torch that came with the unit. It worked flawlessly. Swapped back to the machine torch…100% dead. At least the machine torch holder can also hold the hand torch, which is what is on the table today.

Obround holes
The first parts cut had horrible obround holes. At first, I thought it was my programming speed. Then, though, shoot, that just may be the cut quality of the RW45 - no idea. I did a bunch of test circles for different cut speeds in 1/4. As the holes got bigger, I noticed the top and bottom of them flattened out. It was like the X axis was not keeping up with the Y axis. I then discovered the X-axis little set screw to lead screw to the X-axis motor was not seated and the lead screw had an increasing backlash. Took it apart, reset and now it works correctly. Then went over every nut and screw the original owner assembled. That was the only issue.

Nuclear meltdown electrodes
Mid-cutting a 31" x 8" 1/4" thick MS part, the torch tip went full nuclear. The tip and nozzle had maybe 10 to 20 min of cutting time in total on them. But the electrode was burned back and to the side of the nozzle. I installed new consumables, edited the program to start near the fail point, and saved the part. Then it did it again two parts later, this time the torch would not turn off at all, just a HF type short with lots of electrical sparks going. I had to pull power to the RW45. I replaced every consumable, including the tip/nozzle/swirl ring and lower housing. Its been working since.

New Plasma cutter:
I ordered a Hypertherm 45 SYNC with a Machine Torch and bought the adaptor cable from Langmuir. Everything arrived yesterday. Standing by for installation and set up. (Note: I called Bakergas.com and asked them to email me a discounted quote. No one would budge on the price for the MAP-controlled 45 SYNC. But I asked them for a discount, and whatever that amount was, I would spend on cartridges for it, so it would be a full-price sale. I paid full price for $150 of cartridges and got $150 off the machine. Deal. )

Table lost all power to axis
Turned on the table, now with maybe 2hrs of total cut time. Computer connected to the CPU, but drives would not move. CrossFire says its moving the drives but nothing. Reboot everything. Nothing. Update CrossFire, already have latest version. Update firmware on CPU. Reboot everything again, nothing. Back into the CPU I go to test the power supply for the axis motors. 120v going to it, and 0v coming out. Dead power supply. Its 6PM on a Tuesday no local options. I remove the power supply and go inside. Dead 6.3 250v fuse that is hard soldered to the board! It is not a replaceable fuse socket but soldered directly into the board. I refrained from jumpering the thing. I ordered TWO $28 Amazon power supplies for “LED” lights that look identical. Urrgh. It’s really a 30-cent fuse. The power supplies are on Prime with delivery 10AM to 3PM today. These days, that can also mean tomorrow. As soon as the local ACE hardware opens, I will pick up a fuse and solder it on top of the dead one. Perhaps I can get a few hours of cut time before it blows that fuse or the new power supplies show up. For $28, having a spare power supply on hand is a no-brainer.

So, it’s been a journey with this tool. Its value is there, and I love the open gantry style for the 25 x 33" work area. I am hanging a full 4’ x 8" sheet of steel off it and just turning the plate as needed. I am looking forward to actually using the tool more than fixing it.

That doesn’t sound like a ‘Pro’. That sounds like an XL. How many Y motors does it have?

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Ah yes, not a Pro. Updated post. It’s the little guy with the open gantry. Need to learn my models better.

Not a problem, it will just help us provide support. Good summary on your ‘saga’!

UPDATE / CONT. from first post:

DC Power Supply died. Down 8 days.
DC Power Supply from AMZ arrived marked 36v on the box, but inside it was marked 24v and indeed only 24v output. (Had ordered 2 but one of the AMZ vendors canceled that sale) Ordered drive #2 it arrived 3 days later again marked 36v and same with the part, but the output max was 28v with the adjusting screw moved to the most output it could do. Called Langmuir directly and placed an order for#3 power supply, a $25 power supply w/ $5 shipping. Same day I ordered AMZ #4&5 Power Supplies this time two different vendors units. The next day, one of the AMZ units showed up and was correct! A storm hit the PNW, and #5 AMZ unit showed up 3 days later, then the Langmuir one (#4) shipped “2 days” and showed up on day 6. (Storm) The table is back up and running by day 8, or 20 days from when I first powered it on.

I now have three spare DC power supplies.

Z Axis Stepper Malfunction: 26 Days after powering on the table.

Z Axis failed mid-cutting a large 1/4" part. Z axis would not move up or down, just hum. Then it would move one way a bit, hum. Then do the same, going the other way like it was jammed up. Removed THC/Z axis assembly, tore it down, looking for debris in the lead screw, failed bearing, etc. I stripped it down to the Z stepper motor with just the lead shaft, and it still did the move and then hum.

I unplugged the serial plug into the CrossFire MCU and reviewed all the wiring for damage or being pulled on. Everything looks intact. I called Langmuir to order a new Z-axis stepper motor. $35 shipped. It should ship tomorrow, Thursday, with the two-day delivery arriving on Monday. Down again min 5 days. Projects pushed back.

Note: the Z axis did this the first time I turned on the table, but it disappeared. I chalked it up to something sitting on the lead screw that cleared. It’s probably related, and the Z stepper just had a gremlin.

have you tried pluggin gin the z axis motor cable to the Y or X axis port on the control box to see if it actually is the driver or the motor itself?

I thought about that but since the Z is a smaller unit than the X and Y motors, I was concerned the driver might be different. Would not want to take out another part of the table.

When I called Langmuir, the tech I talked to did not suggest that; he just agreed the behavior the motor was doing sounded like a bad motor.

Have others tested their Z motor from their Crossfire or Crossfire Pro (Understand they are the same) by plugging into an X or Y driver?

its been done before. i’ve done it and have seen other people posting they have when troubleshooting any of the drivers/motors.

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Z Driver driving X or Y motors would be ok for testing, the Z Driver would output less power. Y driver driving Z motor would NOT be ok unless you changed the DIP switches to match the Z settings. I wouldn’t even do it briefly.

On the other hand, if you managed to blow out ALL of your drivers then you could replace them with good ones! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yikes lets not blow all the drivers!

@nicaDd @TomWS

Before @nicaDd 's suggestion I had already figured the Z stepper was down for the count, new one was in bound so why not go hunting inside of it for a broken/interrupted wire for dying bearing binding up.

Never taken a stepper motor apart, then again half the stuff I try for the first time I am more than not qualified for. Brought it into my office for a clean environment and broke it down separating the end caps and pulling out the rotor. Nothing debris like fell out and no sign of burning or rubbing inside. The field windings with the 4 wires going into them were all intact visually. All the bearings spun freely. Put it all back together with the wave spring washers between the end caps and the bearing seats like it came. Buttoned it back up and took it back out to the table. I first put it into the Z drive to see if there was any sign of life left from it. It came alive and is working as it should! Like 100% no issues.

Put the Z axis back together keeping that darn spring in its cup. (my THC failing cuprite), remounted the torch and its back in action. I will run it for a bit and see if the issue comes back. Meanwhile a new Z motor is inbound incase that is the issue. Always possible its the driver and it resting for 3hrs (all under power) it cooled down/reset it self etc.