Hello from WA state

Introductions
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I build/rebuild primarily classic cars for the most part as my full time hobby as I am retired from the Army and the firearms industry. I have a full shop to include a mill and lathe, fabrication area, TIG and MIG welders, etc.

I ordered a Crossfire with all of the upgrades and have since received everything but the Z axis + THC control. Over the past 3-4 days I have been trying to assemble the parts that I have received and thus far have managed to get the frame, water table and gantry assembled.

I am going to say right now that this thing has by far the WORST instructions I have ever seen. So far I have had to review 2 different sets of instructions on LS’s site (the legacy and the current) and numerous YouTube videos in order to simply assemble this machine.

The machine itself seems to be made well but very little of it is intuitive nor are there good pictures or drawings that clearly show the correct assembly. Then factor in the additions of the options (such as the XL kit) and all bets are off. In at least several occasions the instructions on the web site are contradictory telling you to go to one spot which tells you to go back to the other spot.

I am absolutely dreading the wiring tasks since several video’s suggest this is also an exercise in frustration. I am VERY disappointed so far and am hoping that using it goes much better than putting it together.

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I am in Washington state as well. I will say that when I opened all the boxes and saw all the pieces, it seemed overwhelming. Welcome to the Langmuir community.

It is like the first TV I built…I never built a TV. But the point is that the instructions make sense when you are done. There are great people on this site that will help but your post comes across more as a complaint than a question.

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Don’t get your hopes to high as using it will all depend on how well you grasp CAD-CAM software you choose. Learning how to use one of these is not easy for the average person!
And welcome to the forum!

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I was not overwhelmed at the number of parts or the build, I was just disappointed at the instructions which I contend absolutely suck. Yes you can muddle through the build with a lot of back and forth between various instructions, online pictures and some YT videos but given the popularity of the product it should not be this way.

I basically have it built and am waiting on the Z axis-THC upgrade kit but other than that it is together. I am sure that this forum will be of great value as I move forward.

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My hopes are not overly high but I do “hope” that I am able to cut some basic 2D shapes. I am pretty familiar with Fusion 360 as I do drawings for my neighbor to cut on his CNC mill. I am not at all familiar with Fire control so we will see how that goes.

I fully recognize that there is a learning curve involved here and intend to figure this out and use this product.

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@70chall440 welcome to the forum!!

I have no experience with the crossfire directions. I imagine it could get tricky getting passed back and forth as you described.

The pro directions were well done. The only time I got things mixed up was when I tried to guess the next steps and jumped ahead. I had to go back to the directions and back up a couple steps. After that I stuck with the directions step by step. One Hangup I had was that the images of the inserts for the leg levelers in the directions didn’t look anything like what was supplied. There was a note in the directions that pointed that out but I missed it the first couple of times. There was another instance with the z axis assembly that I had to look to the forum. The people here are knowledgeable and helpful. Hopefully you can post some of your challenges and the solutions you found to help people in the future with their assembly. For me adapting to Fusion has been one of the more challenging things so by having that in your quiver you have already cleared a big hurdle!

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing what you create on your new machine!

Best advice they give in the tutorials is to start simple.

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Thanks I appreciate the encouragement. I am not completely disillusioned with the product (yet) just disappointed at the directions. I am looking forward to using the machine and engaging with others on the forum.

As to sharing my experiences, to be honest I would not know where to start as there were so many issues. I am a visual learner and I initially relied heavily on the drawings which was a mistake. That said, I am over it and looking forward to moving on.

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I hear you. The thing I found troubling was they would name a part but there often lacked a photo or drawing with that exact object clearly identified with that name. The Langmuir support staff is very prompt with inquires as you go along. Just be patient and keep your cool and they will stick with you.

I am with you on the 2D parts. Lots of people are doing signs and art but I had two things in mind: house numbers (for my house) and making support brackets. Once you get the drawing, then the CAM operation to generate the G-code, FireControl is really the easy part.

I thought I was reading the directions carefully and checking it three times and still plugged the module into the control panel 180 degrees wrong. Guess what: the computer would not communicate with the table. This is after 4 days of building, finding the correct additive for the water pan and designing a part (House numbers) and getting the metal on the table. That took another day of checking and exchanged of emails. They were very patient with me.

I did not know how to interact with this forum. So…I kind of avoided it. You have already meet two really good guys on this site: @72Pony and @Knick. Everyone went through what you are going through and that is why we are all, pretty much, here to help each other.

You will probably meet TinWhisperer in the very near future on this site or his YouTube channel. You could not get better information on how to use Fusion 360. If you go through the Langmuir help videos on Fusion, it will really help. CAD/CAM with Fusion360 | Langmuir Systems. The more repetition and exposure to how the program works and different features that you will pick up from various individuals really helps.

Not that you would have the same response but my first YouTube Fusion 360 videos were by MTD Racing. He does some things, a bit fast, but it shows you what is possible with some of his actual projects. He makes it seem easy. Then I watched a few of Mike Festiva YouTube videos and he takes you step by step. Another who I really enjoy for short topics is Lars Christensen.

And post a question about the specific issues you are having: Make a new topic. Most of the top responders/leaders will look to see if you have read previous threads on this site related to the very issue you are having. It is good to read some of their responses to others who had similar problems.

When you start reading this forum, there is usually someone every week asking some of the same questions that had already been thoroughly discussed with another member. An example is: What is a good CAD or CAM program? That question may not get much activity because many of us have shared what we know more than 5 times at this point.

I am glad to hear that you are going to try to get familiar with Fusion 360. It will get you started with a good platform. And then it has CAM with it. Plus, it is free if you are a hobby user. If you were going to do lots of art, you would really be thinking of SheetCAM for the CAM operation.

Good luck to you and look forward to some exciting and rewarding times with your new endeavor. Again, Welcome.

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This will make it much easier. There still will be a slight learning curve for dialing in your cut settings but that should not be to bad.

Few things I can point out about the forum:

Always search the Forum before asking for help (magnifying glass upper right corner)
Pay attention to what info was supplied when the person made the post and what info people ask for when trying to help.

I have seen people come in here and upload a picture of a bad cut and ask what am I doing wrong?
Not sure about you but I am not really into helping people like that. But there are guys here that overlook that and will provide all the help they can. (these guys are better people than I)

If you do post a question provide as much info as you can (this will take some time as you wont know what info people need to help you)

When asking for help list these items:
What table, plasma cutter, and what ever else you think might be helpful.
If your looking for help with Fusion post your F3d file and G code if you have it ( this lets people see what your dealing with)

Post pics and Videos, I am like you, I like pictures.

Fire control is more powerful then you might first realize, it has lots of features if you dig around in it.

Your a car guy so I am sure you have ran in to shit that was hard to figure out, this will be the same.

PS remember how you ask for help in here makes all the difference in how people will respond to you, Try to keep positive or it looks like your just complaining.

You normally will get help here and for free, better than you would if you were paying for support!

Good luck and I hope you get to cut some parts soon!

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Thanks for the advice and heads up relative to the forum. I am active on a number of car forums so I am familiar with the etiquette which is why I posted here in the introductions first.

I absolutely understand about asking the “right” question in the “right” way, I deal with this on some of the car forums frequently where people ask open ended questions, do not provide the necessary information for forum members to understand or offer advice and then become upset when they don’t get an answer or the answer they want.

Again, I look forward to engaging with the community. My feelings on this and pretty much every other skill/task I have had to deal with over the years is that many others have and are doing it, there is no reason I cannot.

Thanks again all

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Hey there fellow Washingtonian!

I found that I had to go back and re-do, and re-read instructions a few times to get it right.

But every question I had was very promptly answered by either support or the forume community.

Such is the way it is in a “budget” kit.but I can say I have been absolutely happy considering the price point.

As someone that rebuilds cars, you know there is a learning curve. There isn’t always an exact example or picture in the docs for your question.

Suffice it to say, I have never been let down by their support or these forums in finding an answer or guidance.

Happy to help in any way I can, as is everyone else here I have found, if you are having trouble with a particular build or setup or operation issue.

Cheers!

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Thanks for responding/commenting. Thus far I have been able to figure out what to do via the various instructions and the internet, so all is good for the most part. I guess I am just disappointed in that I thought the instructions in and of themselves would have been better.

Yes I am very cognizant that there is a learning and I accepted this going in. I do believe that the pictures/drawings are a bit vague and in some cases not overly helpful, additionally in some cases the written instructions seem contradictory. This said I think a large part of my problem in that I upgraded the entire system getting the XL upgrade along with the Z axis +THC controller so these through a wrench into some of the instructions.

I do have one question that you might be able to help me with, on the water table drain there is a nitrile washer/gasket, how tight is that nut supposed to be underneath?

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It has been long enough that I have forgotten but you want that snug. I believe I used plumber putty on the topside as well before tightening.

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I figured it needs to be pretty tight but the gasket is acting weird when I attempt to tighten it so I thought I’d ask. The issue is that the gasket doesn’t seem to want to create a seal equally around the brass plug when pressure is applied but I think I just need to tighten it more and see what I get. If there remains an issue I will make a new gasket.

I just got the Z axis +THC kit and am installing that currently.

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The problem that I have found with gaskets, including hose washers, is that if they develop any friction grab with the surfaces, they will grab and distort the gasket vs. the intended pressing against them. I read somewhere that by adding a lubricant, while tightening, you will get a more satisfactory seal. That is why plumber’s putty has a better outcome.

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Just take your time go back watch the vids .
It will come together If you need help i live in Yakima.
just call John Raney i will try to help?

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Thanks John, I appreciate it.

I have it pretty much all together now with the XL kit and the Z axis+THC kit. I am using a Hynade CUT60DN plasma cutter at least for now which I have wired up but have yet to test.

I want to put a water trap on the table before I start putting air to it but should be in the testing phase soon.

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I just compressed it a little. it will seal up with gunk :slight_smile: I just put water in mine and tested. Imagine if you get a little leaking a little extra tightening would seal it up if it is sitting in there nicely and not askew.

Mine did not leak

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Any time 70chall440 just got mine this his year and had very good luck built some brackets for gasser where is your location?

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I am in Yelm, a bit far but not too bad. I build mainly Mopar muscle cars, I have a 70 Challenger RT, 73 Cuda, 70 Roadrunner, 71 Charger, and 68 FB Barracuda as well as a number of more modern cars.

I ended up removing the water table plug and replacing the gasket with an O ring, I will test it before fully filling it.

I am looking forward to using it, not sure what I will make first but I am sure I will figure something out.

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