Fiber Laser for us Hobby Guys?

41

There’s a reason why I specifically labeled the table brands I did - STV has servo-operated varients priced up there with the others mentioned. Definitely not hobby grade at all.

Both my Langmuir tables did everything I needed them to do. It’s not to say they can’t or won’t perform. When people ask about a new table (as a newbie), I don’t steer them towards an expensive table right away as I’ll go over Pros and Cons both ways.

Great example of this is when someone asked about switching to a Hypertherm. I own one, but I still suggest machines like PrimeWeld and Everlast depending on the situation.

With that said, I see value in the more premium tables based on - build quality and strength, tighter tolerances to things that sort of “force” things to be square, aligned, and what have you, reliability (mileage may vary when we’re talking Langmuir),

The above as well as being made in USA is a large reason for the cost difference. The cherry on top are the built-in Controller, CAD/CAM software applications that allow the user to make full use of their table. That and also realizing features exist that one wouldn’t have thought of or known because cheaper tables don’t have those options.

A Hyundai will get you from point A to point B. So will the Land Cruiser. But one is built significantly better and relies on it’s legendary reliability which sells itself for many.

2 Likes
42

Your point is made. The Langmuir table is far from junk. That was my point. You are on the Langmuir Forum. Feel free to block me at any point.

4 Likes
43

Opposing views are healthy though :wink:

Be a completely boring world if we all agreed on everything. I also never called Langmuir junk that’s for sure, just that mileage may vary regarding reliability.

My Crossfire (small one) was more reliable than my Crossfire Pro even though they use the same parts. It just comes down to consistency between components at that point.

I liked both my tables, and they made me money. But I like a nicer table even more.

1 Like
44

We have a variety of machines in our shop, and overall my Pro has been solid for years: it holds tolerances, starts fast, is easy to clean, and requires near-zero operator training. My biggest frustration is simply the lack of FireControl and BendControl releases.

By day, I’m an embedded hardware/firmware engineer. For context, here are my stats for the last 2 days:

Lines Changed (Last 2 Days)

  • Files changed: 121

  • Insertions: +6,067

  • Deletions: -3,465

  • Net change: +2,602

I’m using leading-edge agentic tooling and typically make 10+ repository commits per day. I’ve also been coding since 1978 — almost 50 years — so I’ve watched development models evolve a lot over time.

At this point, Langmuir should seriously consider open-sourcing FireControl and BendControl, and allowing the community to contribute improvements, enhancements, and bug fixes. Langmuir could still control the official release process by managing pull requests, while also allowing advanced users to run their own forks when needed.

Yes, this is a big step for Langmuir, and I understand the safety/liability implications. But those issues can be addressed with licensing, disclaimers, gated builds, and clear separation between “community builds” and official validated releases. Done properly, it would allow Langmuir to focus on design and manufacturing of new products, while the community helps maintain and improve legacy software.

Linux was open-sourced 35 years ago, and the result speaks for itself: billions of deployments, powering much of the internet and all Android devices, supported by a massive developer community. I’m not claiming FireControl/BendControl is Linux — but the open development model clearly works when managed well.

August 25 1991

image
image504×356 35.5 KB

4 Likes
Consider Open Sourcing FireControl and BendControl
45

All fun and games until you have to dispose of what those things create as a byproduct. 100% classified as industrial waste and has to be treated as such by HAZMAT.

Expensive.

46

Depending on which material is being cut.

How would you classify the wastewater coming from a plasma table?

2 Likes
47

The same, honestly. Heavy metal contamination.

1 Like
48

Once upon a time, I was in environmental compliance for the gov’t and a trained hazmat technician (think guys in moon suits). At that time, your question would be answered by me saying “that depends”.

Re: Plasma table water

Classification mostly dependent on: the source, commercial or individual; regulatory status (RCRA listed?) of the chemicals if commercial; and possibly the state at time of disposal. In the case of plasma table water from a home enthusiast, it would almost certainly be unregulated by Fed Gov’t unless high volumes were being generated or it was being dumped directly into a regulated waterway. There may be local or State regs applicable to individuals, but that is hit or miss in the US.

If it was a commercial facility, it would likely be classified as Special Waste, not Hazardous Waste. It might still require management by a licensed disposal company, but at a lower rank than hazardous. If I were at a commercial facility discussing this type of waste, I’d suggest they get an analysis of the water and consider using some agent to solidify and bind the contents, thereby the disposal requirements would be lightened. Simple example would be mix it with concrete mix.

By binding and eliminating any free liquid, the Commercial generator might even be able to get the ranking lowered to Solid Waste, meaning no special disposal requirements if the included chemicals are shown to no longer be available to become water soluble. It might then be able to be disposed of as solid fill under the right circumstances.

3 Likes
49

So basically the problem comes in when you’re cutting stainless steel? What kind of heavy metals are being introduced when you’re cutting steel or aluminum?

1 Like
50

Thanks for that clarification.

I only remembered the waterjet we had at my first engineering position out in our eng lab. It was a 20x20ft table or something huge. We cut everything from aluminum to mild steel to stainless to rubber and other polymers. I was told by the lab manager that it’s fantastic as it will cut through basically anything, until you have to service it (because even the diamond tipped nozzle would be abraided by the garnet over time) or worse when you had to drain the table to remove all the cuttings and garnet powder.

Granted, yes, this was an industrial water jet at a HUGE company, so my memory is in that particular application (and it’s been 15 year since then, so I guess my recollection slipped, just remembered it was some kind of HAZMAT special waste call out). However, I would still think a waterjet in an individual/hobbyist shop should still have its effluent at least treated in the same manner, considering the contents would likely be similar. Do I want the gobbament involved? heck no, but just don’t go dumping it in the storm drain.

1 Like
51

Good on you for being environmentally conscious. Even though I am pretty conservative and we’re not supposed to care about the environment ( :wink:) I try to do the right thing as much as possible.

For my plasma water table, after I drain and scrape it and dehydrate it in the sun, I have a place where the soil is loose enough for me to mix it in. It’s under my wood rack, so It gets no rainfall either so should be no runoff/infiltration. Even iron in excessive amounts is considered a contaminant in soil and groundwater. I’ll find a new place when I feel I may be getting it to iron rich.

I have sent some in metal cans to the metal recycle yard with my scrap.

1 Like
52

apynckel and TinWhisperer You guys have water in your tables to drain? Mine always evaporates and I constantly have to add more to my dry table. hahaha I guess this just means I don’t maintain it well enough.

@holla2040 I agree anything that increases community involvement is good for Langmuir Systems.

I use UGS to mod my MR-1 firmware. They don’t have it locked out. You can also control the MR-1 with UGS. It’s open source and you can mod it I think. You just need to submit a pull request? Not sure what that means. It prolly makes more sense to you. https://universalgcodesender.com/contributing/

1 Like
53

super cereal autist enginerd answer… bruh, I fill and drain my pan for every use

54

I have been using the same water for 3 years, all i do add also.

3 Likes
55

NO WAY! I’m totally not that committed. Lol

56

Why all of a sudden does metal or aluminum become hazmat when cut on a plasma table or other means of cutting? After all materials that make these components up are extracted from earth in which we are standing on it and breathing it in from air 24/7 365 days a year people. What happened to common sense thinking, according to most scientists every volcano that erupts around the world every day one volcano does more harm than man can do in 100 years…I am a retired logger, I cut timber and replanted logging sight with new trees and guess what the forests are still thriving ,contrary what we were told since the 1960s that all forests would be depleted around the entire world by 1990.. Guess what we still have heathy forests around the world.

1 Like
58

Everything in moderation (and/or low concentration). Most all metals in nature are oxides / ceramics of some form or another until they’re refined / reduced / milled. We haven’t been around pure metals during our existence here (excluding early copper/bronzes, which occur as natural alloys) save for a tiny blip over the past couple hundred years.

The risk with plasma is, you’re liquifying / vaporizing materials that the human physiology really isn’t used to and it can be harmful. Basically every metal we cut is some form of alloy, nothing is truly pure. With waterjet, you’re abrading it into micro/nano scale dust using tiny rocks to do it, which we know aren’t good for us (see asbestos). That dust is then even easier to kick up airborne or get into some extremity (or take into account the biohazardous zoo that is created in our water tables by not filtering it or replacing it often cough cough @Richardbeck83 ).

All that to say, it’s considered Hazmat to reduce the potential. Can you handle it (as in scrape it up and move it around)? Sure. Is there risk? Yes. I personally wear at least a P100 respirator and some thick forearm covering gloves when I’m cleaning up my table. Material support slats are sharp and are covered in who knows what. You don’t have to, but that’s your call. Personal responsibility and personal protective equipment (my whole argument against the “masking for others” fiasco from 5 years ago).

Do you wear respirators when you’re logging? We’re around trees all our existence, but concentrations of wood dust collecting in our lungs is bad for us. If the body cannot break it down or expel it, it will create calcified cysts around whatever foreign invader it identifies. Those then have a chance of going malignant.

Heck, your morning cup of coffee, and even 3d printing carries the risk of VOC’s and fine plastic particulates (even paper cups are coated in some form of FEP) that we’re just NOW finding out are collecting in our system and harming us.

I work in Oil and Gas drilling, previously dabbling in rocket surgery (look up Hydrazine). I have a nuclear engineering degree. I LOVE material science. I’m a huge proponent of at least doubling our national power reactors, and then refining (for enriched byproducts for refueling) and sending the waste isotopes back down from whence they cometh. But it all has to be done properly and carefully. These water based meat sacks we ride around in aren’t as robust as we think they are.

59

What happened to original subject would like to find out more about Apollo Laser . Or who has one and there experience with one ??

60
2 Likes
61

The link @TinWhisperer provided, that’s the guy I mentioned many posts back on here that posted on the Facebook Apollo page.

He had a video I think on Facebook - maybe he’ll add some in the Langmuir thread.

1 Like